I FOUND THE ENZYMES!!!!!!!

wnaysha · Post by **wnaysha** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:37 pm

Hey everyone,

The reason why people with tmau smell bad is because their body do not have the enzyme needed to break down tma(trymethylamine-smelly chemicals found in food) and make it into two different odorless chemicals like in a normal person's body.

In our case, it looks like sugar(glucose, lactose, carbohydrates) usually makes our bb worse, because just like lactose intolerance the sugars are not divided into different odorless chemicals by an enzyme, because we do not have them in our mouth and digestive system.

after doing a little research, I have found a toothpaste, mouthwash, and gel that includes those enzymes needed to break those smelly chemicals, i wish there was a syrup , but for now these are better than nothing.

It is Biotene toothpaste (includes enzymes,the most helpful), then Biotene gel( includes enzymes, helps with canker sores in mouth, and pain in throat), and finally the mouthwash (alcohol free, not strong at all)

now, all of these products are actually for dry mouth, which is why it took me so long to know they are also for badbreath, and infact the very effective. If you don't want to spend ur money, go to their website and just order the samples, and trust me you will buy it.

After using the toothpaste my mouth definitely feels cleaner, although there is a little bit of white tongue coating, it doesn't smell bad, and infact I can now smell other people's breath.

HOPE it helps u all,

bhd · Post by **bhd** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:40 pm

search it on the forum, there has been a few people that said it helped, but not really a cure. i tried and it leaves my mouth with a weird feeling.

when you said enzymes i thought u meant digestive enzymes which sound more promising.

me · Post by me » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:14 pm

I appriciate your research and work, and I agree, I wish there was a syrup with those enzymes in which case you would be approaching the probable cause. With that said I think that worrying about the mouth is not all that important. That's why I don't even pay attention to posts about people asking if a certain mouthwash or tooth paste will help, is just a waste of time. I see it as if black smoke would be coming from your car exhaust, your not gonna worry about the exhaust because the smoke is probably coming from a malfunction in the motor or else where.

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:22 pm

Interesting wnaysha,
I read somewhere that such gene mutations that are responsible for causing TMAU can eventually be "repaired" (if that's the right word) by gene therapy. But in the meantime wouldnt it be great if it were so simple that you could just artificially place into the gut whatever enzymes are needed to break down TMA, like with some kind of time release capsules if it needed to act further down the digestive tract.

Anyone have any idea why something like this isnt already in existence?

Remember, that you dont have to have TMAU to be able give yourself the symptoms of TMAU. If you eat very high protein diet or tons of fish and other foods containing high amounts of the precursor to trimethylamine, such as choline, and you overwhelm the system which would normally be capable of breaking down smelly compounds, you'll end up stinking. Its a common problem for bodybuilders.

Edit:-
Also, could it be that for some reason, for instance as you described wnaysha, that lactose intolerance for example (or something relating to glucose/diabetes etc), results in sugars which arent being broken down, having a detrimental effect on gut flora (causing overgrowth of bacteria in the intestine) resulting in far more smelly compounds being produced (trimethylamine, as well as others)?

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Wnaysha how do you think this product is helping you?
Do you think its acting on oral bacteria and oral bacterial activity directly, or are you swallowing something and believe its acting on your digestive system/flora in some way.

A few weeks ago I made a thread about dry mouth but nobody responded to it. Spoke to a few people about lysozyme (one of the enzymes mentioned in Biotene) one person even bought some powdered lysozyme from a brewing website, not sure what happened to him, hope he's ok

wnaysha · Post by **wnaysha** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:15 pm

bhd,

ye, thats what i'm trying to say here, if the reason why our mouth smells bad is those chemicals that are not broken down, then that means that the same thing is happening in our GI tract, and if we find a syrup of these enzymes and drink it, wouldn't it also break down the same chemicals in our GI tract?

wnaysha · Post by **wnaysha** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:39 pm

Hi halitosisux,

wow, i didn't know there was a cure for tmau.

I don't know why they haven't made anything like that yet, probably because people with tmau were also having bo problems, and no one's doing any research on ppl like us to finally find out whats needed, but the fact that a product like biotene with these enzymes exist tells us it can help.

Do you remember which website he ordered it from? that would be very helpful. lol, his bb was probably cured

about me: yes it has helped, there used to be this metallic/fecal kind of smell on my tongue and this has helped remove the smell, and the pain in my throat. Its so weird how my body had been in so much pain whether it was acid reflux, pain in my throat, ibs, or pnd (sinuses), and It felt so normal until I took the medication for it and the pain was gone. but i'm happy i'm getting better, n i'm able to control all of this, It feels like immunosupprssion sometimes.

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:02 pm

lol, no sorry I didnt mean there was actually a cure yet for TMAU regarding gene therapy, but that in the same way that gene therapy has/is being targeted to work on something genetically related like cystic fibrosis, then it could potentially lead to a cure for TMAU. I've read somewhere that this is a very real possibility for TMAU.

But since the manifestation of this particular gene "defect" is merely an absent/ineffective enzyme and subsequent inability to break down trimethylamine (simple chemisty I'm presuming) then in the same way that you can simply take pills containing enzymes which deal lactose for those who are intolerant to lactose, then why not the same for TMAU?

On the Lysozyme, I think the guy said you can buy it in powdered form from home brewery stores, and its inexpensive ($20 for a bag - you could probably make gallons from that).
I cant remember who I discussed it with (he suddenly went quiet, hope he didnt go too mad with the stuff), but a few years ago when I was desperate and trying to look at my oral bacteria through a microscope, I was testing things and trying egg-white on my incubated saliva/spit. The lysozyme contained in the egg white (as far as I know commercial lysozyme is derived from egg-whites) prevented it from smelling, so it definitely works, but getting it to work constantly inside my mouth was another matter. My dad used to make us eat whisked raw egg whites (well, he made me eat it), I remember he always used to complain that I'm constipated. I still dont know why or where he got the idea to give us this awful sickly drink, because I dont ever remember even being aware of any constipation.

Caramiamine98, if you are reading, what are your actual BB symptoms? Do you get tongue odours? if so, what do they smell of? Do you get excessive tongue coatings? Any other symptoms you can mention? thanx

bhd · Post by **bhd** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:29 pm

researching and testing out some digestive enzymes would be a good thing to do.

caramiamine98 · Post by **caramiamine98** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:59 am

Wednesday, July 29, 2009
FMO3 paper July 2009 : Expression and characterization of functional dog flavin-containing monooxygenase 3
At the moment, FMO3 enzyme is a main suspect in most cases of 'genetic metabolic' body odor, although trimethylaminuria is the only documented form of metabolic body odor associated with this enzyme. So any research into FMO3 is of interest. especially since it is probably the most neglected and least-researched of the xenobiotic metabolizing enzymes, despite being very abundant in the liver and one of the most used, dealing with 1,000s of substrates.

Being one of the drug-metabolizing enzymes, it makes it the more surprising that little is known about FMO3, since it means those with suboptimal FMO3 function may be expected to react badly to drugs that use FMO3 for activation/detoxication...

http://www.bloodbornebodyodorandhalitos ... n-and.html

High doses (8 - 20g) of choline are also used to treat people with Huntington's chorea. The main side effect is a fish-like odour. My previous diet never approached anywhere near those levels.

I had only 2 symptoms- extreme BB after eating anything high in choline. Even one egg (125 mg) would be enough to cause me to smell. I also had a weird taste in my mouth. I don't or didn't have any tongue odours that I know of nor any tongue coatings either. I always felt perfectly healthy too. I was never able to determine what exactly it smelled like but I was told that it was definitely not fishy, just bad.

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:25 pm

These are really important pieces of information. And its as though there is something similar happening to TMAU and TMA production, but not quite the same chemicals being produced or exact enzymes which relate to TMAU.

caramiamine98 · Post by **caramiamine98** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:15 am

Just to put 8-20g of choline into perspective, the average person would have to consume 64 to 160 eggs per day to induce TMAU like odours in themselves. Mercifully, for Huntington's chorea patients choline does come in pill form.

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