Bad Breath Halitosis Forum

OK Guys,
I am not going to post a long story about how I suffered with BB over the last year and a half, but it has been a terrible journey.
However for the past 4 or 5 days I have tried a system that IS WORKING for me. My BB is gone as far as I can tell. Now I will tell you what is working for me, but I will do so in levels so that you can do what you feel is right for you.
LEVEL 1
Go buy Retardex (this is called Closys in the states but retardex in the UK and some other countries - it is the same thing, so if you cant find retardex in your country, search for closys).
In the UK you can get this from Sainsburys, Boots, tesco etc etc.
I used this a while ago and I noticed that my BB went away, but people were still covering their noses when I spoke, so I got discouraged and stopped using it. That was a BIG mistake, I should not have stopped. I have started using it again, but I noticed that when I used it, it made my mouth feel clammy/ saliva feel thick, so what I did was use it BEFORE I brushed my teeth and it worked. My BB was reduced by 85% and I did not get that clammy/thick saliva feel in my mouth.
This combination of retardex first and then brushing your teeth next should help with BB. This is level 1.

LEVEL 2
I am not going to take credit for this as I came across it on the internet on a blog by a dentist called Dr Ellie. If you type 'ask dr ellie' into google, it will take you to her website/blog.
She has developed a system based on mouth washes you can find in stores WHICH IS WORKING FOR ME!!!!
Basically, her system involves 5 stages:
1. rinse your mouth with closys BEFORE brushing (just like I discovered on my own)
2. Brush with Crest original toothpaste
3. Rinse with listerine
4. Rinse with ACT mouthwash
5. Use her special Zellies products which are made from 100% Xylitol.
Now Dr Ellie is based in the states and these products she mentions are available in the states. I live in the UK and not all these products are available here.
But Dr Ellie has kindly suggested alternatives which can be found in the UK as follows:
1. Replace closys with retardex - swish in mouth 1 minute
2. Brush with Crest original toothpaste (she insists on this - I went to sainsburys and bought crest only to come home and find out it was not the original, but it was crest 'complete' - but so far it seems to work fine - but when the 2 tubes I bought get finished (it was buy one get one free at sainsburys :-)) I will make sure I get only the original).
3. Rinse with listerine - swish vigorously for 30 seconds (I use listerine original, Dr Ellie has a list of other flavours which are acceptable on her blog - note that this is very strong and contains alcohol, but Dr Ellie is aware of this and still says to use it - i found listerine in sainsburys as well as other large chains ie tesco, boots, asda etc)
4. Replace ACT (which is not available in the UK) with Colgate Fluorigard - let this roll around in your mouth for 2-3 minutes (I basically put this in my mouth and then get into the shower and start showering. I keep the mouthwash in my mouth whilst i shower for as long as possible before I spit out......I took the flourigard that specifically said 'alcohol free' on the label and if you read Dr Ellies blog you will find she recommends ACT because it is alcohol free (amongst other things ofcourse!!)).
5.You can buy her 'Zellies' product, but if you are as impatient as I am, she recommended a substitute for this as well! (Can you believe this woman!! She's an angel!!). Anyway, any 100% Xylitol product will do, but she specifically mentioned 'perfect sweet' in her blog. You need 6.5 to 10 grammes of this per day (so about 2 heaped teaspoons - I put it in water in a water bottle and carry it around all day and take sips at various intervals and swish it in my mouth - I swallow after swishing, i dont think it matters) I went out to get this perfect sweet product from 'Holland and Barret' but they had run out of stock. I eventually got it from Sainsburys and it cost about £3 for 250g (I checked the Tesco and Asda websites but did not find it on there - I dont know if it will be available in their stores, but it is definitely available at sainsburys stores).
I have used this system for a couple of days now and the change is dramatic!! I have a new found confidence at work I can talk and laugh.
Before I used this, sometimes when I spoke, I could see people across the table looking at me in 'awe' of the smell that was emanating from my mouth. This evening I went out for a work do (which I only accepted yesterday even though the Invite was sent out a month ago - I intended not to go for it as I have avoided these things and keep away from people due to my BB). I talked and the hand did not go up to 'scratch the upper lip/cover the nose'!! I had a glass of wine, some garlic bread and a pizza. Admittedly after the garlic bread, the guy directly opposite me had to 'bring the hand up' but the one next to him, then one directly next to me, no reaction whatsoever!!!!
Even this morning when I woke up, my morning breath was 'mild'!!!!
Guys, I could go on and on, but this post is already very long and that is the reason why I did not start off with a history of how I have suffered with this disease cos it would have been longer!!
We do not have to suffer with this. I know different things work for different people, but this is one solution that I am confident will work for a majority of people.
If you don't want to go the whole hog, start out with LEVEL 1 i.e. the retardex/closys mouthwash BEFORE brushing. It will reduce your BB by at least 75%. Do not bother with the retardex toothpaste, I dont think it works, at least not for me it didnt help. Before I found out about crest from Dr Ellie, I used an australian toothpaste called 'fresh and white tea tree toothpaste' which I bought from the 'Nutri-centre' shops in the UK (which I discovered whilst trawling through BB forums). This worked well with the retardex mouthwash but I think the crest is better.
I cant tell you how much I have suffered with BB - I changed my dentist and even saw an ENT specialist and they did nothing for me.
I have tried it all - Acid reflux treatment, candida, you name it. I have bought vitamins to take (which are good by the way, but do not help with BB), taken extra zinc, used tea tree toothpaste, tea tree mouthwash, taken acidophilus, de-odourised garlic, threelac, oil of oregano, grapefruit seed extract, hydrogen peroxide solutions, nasal irrigation, you name it. I have spent hours and hours researching on the web. Sometimes some things work for a day or 2 and then stop. Sometimes they give me the impression that they work (when I am on my own), but then people cover their noses immediately I start talking. But with this system, I can really tell, that the problem will go away for good!!
Sorry if this was very long, and sorry if it comes out disjointed, it is half past midnight and I cannot proof read the whole post again so I will just post it on as it is. I will set it to notify me when a reply is posted, so that I remember to come back to this site. I only registered today to pass on the good news. I have been trawling through message boards all over the internet looking for a solution, but I never registered. But now that I have found a solution, I have registered so that I can share it.
I will be writing to Dr Ellie soon to thank her, and I will be ordering her Zellie products, because even though Perfect sweet appears to be a replacement (she says so herself), I know that the best way to thank her is to support her product.
Anyway guys, take care and please let me know if you start this program and if it works for you.

Haligone, THANK YOU for the Dr Ellie site.

BB sufferer for 10 years. Tried it all - Breezecare (wasted a few thousand), probiotics, vitamins, MSM, oregano oil, coconut oil, GSE, tea tree oil, anti candida diet, vegetarian diet (been vegie for 20 years),H Pylori triple treatment, no sugar or dairy.....and on and on.

I had been alternating xylitol & stevia as a sweetener for quite some time but never thought to brush my teeth with it until I read Xyli's post. I added a teaspoon to my salt, bicarb & HP 3% mix for brushing morning & night. Also after each session take a teaspoon & let it dissolve it in my mouth swishing it around with saliva for as long as possible then swallowing & not rinsing. Also, I add xylitol to my neti pot saline flush morning & night, allowing it to run down my throat also.

During the day I sip water or green tea with xylitol in it, chew xylitol gum & as a little extra after lunch I might just take a teaspoon & dissolve it in my mouth.

I knew my problem was bacterial because when I take antibiotics my BB would disappear. I cannot tell you what a difference the xylitol has made - morning breath significantly reduced, I no longer have to scrub & hurt my tongue, no bad taste, no reactions, NO BB ..............the other day at work I hardly had to chew gum at all, I kept waiting for the bad taste & smell to appear but it simply didn't, INCREDIBLE !!

It has been 9 days now & I am over the moon - can't even remember the last time I felt like this as I've struggled for so many years. Haligone's Dr Ellie site has some great info & I can't wait to get the products in her 'system' as she does not approve of bicarbonate soda. Probably should mention I am also taking 5 grams chlorella per day.

I urge people to try XYLITOL !!

Thanks to this site I have found my Cure - THANK YOU & GOD bless you all !

Hi Bazy,
Where do you find Xylitol gum in the UK? Today I ordered spry gum from amazon as I have not been able to find anything in the large stores (Sainsburys, tesco, boots etc). I don't know if spry is 100% xylitol.
Just a point to note, I have seen some products with a bit of xylitol and a bit of sorbitol. Apparently sorbitol lowers the effects of xylitol, so try to avoid it.

Hi Hal, I can't help you with Xylitol gum in the UK as I am in Australia. I had the same problem with sorbitol in the xylitol gum until I found a Perfect Sweet gum (66% xylitol, 1.5 gram per serve) by the same people who make the ganular Xylitol - it's more expensive than the other gum but cheaper than having to have Zellies shipped. Spry should be OK, I was going to order that too as it has no sorbitol.

I can't thank you enough for Dr Ellies site - have spent hours on there reading the different topics & can't wait to start the 'system', have to wait though as most of the products are hard to source here in Australia - the Closys should arrive today & the crest & ACT some time next week. Things are going great as it is, so imagine when I start the proper system !!!

I just hope I haven't done too much irreversible damage to my teeth & gums from years of baking soda & hydrogen peroxide.

Thanks again Hal,
Baz.

Hi Hal, I just checked the gum & it's called 'sweeetlife dental gum' by the same company that make perfect sweet - the granular xylitol. I found it in a health food store & will keep using this until I can order some Zellies.


Cheers, Baz.

Hi Baz,
Good to hear things are working out for you. Unfortunately, it appears sweeetlife dental gum is not available in the UK and spry is my only option for the moment.
I took antibiotics once and my BB went away, but I never made the connection as clearly as you did that the problem was bacterial (dumb!!).
I also have an impacted wisdom tooth which is contributing to the problem. I found during my research (trawling through internet halitosis forums!!) that impacted wisdom teeth can contribute to BB, however I didn't want to get my hopes high as I had tried so many things which had not worked in the past. My dentist was also reluctant to extract the tooth, preferring instead to do a 5 minute check-up, and then charge me £17 GBP for that!!
I recently changed my dentist, and told him I want the tooth extracted. He said I need 4 documented visits before I could get it extracted on the National Health Service, where it should probably cost less than a hundred pounds, although if I wanted, he could extract it privately but that would be in excess of a thousand pounds!!!! Some time ago I might have been prepared to take out a finance package to get it extracted privately, but now that I have found xylitol and Dr Ellies system, I think I will wait the 4 visits. The downside is that there has to be a 6 month wait in between visits, or thats the impression I got.
Furthermore, I do not know that the wisdom tooth is the source of my halitosis, although I strongly suspect it.
Anyway, I am happier with my new dentist as he said that if he had an impacted tooth like mine, he will want it extracted. He also clearly told me that I needed 4 visits before I can take the tooth out. I therefore felt confident enough to tell him I had halitosis (I didnt use this when saying I wanted the tooth extracted as I have read several times that dentists do not take BB seriously, so I instead told a story about how much discomfort it was giving me (which is none at all apart from the BB mind you!)).
Well, when I mentioned halitosis, he gave me the usual, floss, brush twice a day, use mouthwash, and I just nodded and left, I could tell from that answer that he would not have been able to help me any further.
But going back to the bacterial problem. Now that I am using the UK version of Dr Ellies system, it appears the bacteria in my mouth get killed and my mouth stays fresh. However, after a couple of hours, if I do not use xylitol, even though my mouth still feels fresh, if I rub my tongue on the impacted tooth, I can smell the BB starting to build up there. This is where I am hoping the xylitol gum will help in keeping that area of my mouth fully xylitolled!! as I usually end up swallowing the granular xylitol.
It would also appear that the bacteria that formed in that part of my mouth (the side with the impacted tooth) overwhelmed my mouth and took over (the way rebels would in an uprising), but now with the Dr Ellie system, I have been able to take back control of a large part of my mouth, but the stronghold remains!! So at the moment, I intend to keep that area under controll with xylitol gum, and then uproot the source of the problem (extract the tooth) when I can!!
Just to let you know, although I feel very fresh, I still get mild reactions from people....... very mild, and I do not mind at all. At first, everyone in the room would put their fingers under their noses (pretending to be in a pensive mood whilst I knew they were avoiding the BB), but now it's only the person directly opposite me who does that. My breath is much better when I wake up, I feel much more confident, I can talk on the phone at work without using my mobile phone so I can go stand outside even on business calls, I am just so much more confident in just 2 weeks that this has been working for me!!
Another thing, my wife said she didnt notice my BB, and my sister as well said she didnt notice anything. These were the only 2 people I was brave enough to ask....... I also noted that when I was in a relaxed environment (eg home) the BB didnt feel too bad to me, but when I was at work, or immediately someone reacted to me, I kind of panicked which made it worse. Did you have this feeling as well?
Oh gosh!! another long post. I better end here

Hi Hal, I don't have a wisdom tooth problem but there is a lot of good info on here - imagine when you do get it extracted !! Something to look forward to & 6 months is not such a long time.

My problem is PND & possibly a very old root canal which the dentist says is fine (and also shrugs me off when I mention BB) but I just 'feel' there is something not quite right in that area. Unfortunately, if I get it extracted I will need an implant to replace it & those things cost almost $5000 here !

You say your breath is still 'fresh' & that is a good description. The xylitol is giving me the same 'freshness' more so than anything else I have tried. I'm not saying my breath now smells like roses, hell no & nor do I expect it to. But it is alot fresher for longer & so is the taste in my mouth. I don't have a partner but I have asked two family members to smell my breath & they detect nothing. I also work in the health profession which involves working in close proximity with others & over the last week I have felt more comfortable speaking freely & more closely to people & there have been no reactions so far. Previously I would shallow breath & avoid getting too close. I just feel alot more confident as well & if this is 'as good as it gets' thats OK, but I expect it will get even better once I start the 'system'.

About the acid/alkaline balance of the mouth, there is a blog entry on Ellie's website where she mentions that the PH of the mouth can change almost instantly according to your mood/emotions especially in females (which I am). There is alot of interesting info. there especially about being constantly reinfected by plaque bacteria (strep. mutans) from your partner & toothbrushes. Thanks again for mentioning that site Hal !

I will let you know how I go with the 'system' when it arrives. Cheers Baz

Hi Baz,
How are you and how are things going for you?
This week has been a bad week for me as I have been getting reactions even with the xylitol.
My mouth feels much better to me, but unfortunately, it appears this does translate through to others.
I went to work and it was GREAT for a while. I was brimming with confidence and it felt good to be free of BB, but this week, I have had to be in a tiny room with 4 other people, and I have had reactions from them all.
Ive even had reactions even when I hadnt opened my mouth!! Even breathing through my nose stinks to other people, my problem is I cannot smell it myself!!
I am so sad.
Unfortunately its not 6 months till I get the extraction, its 2 years!!. The dentist said he needs to record 4 incidents of complaints, and I need to leave 6 months in between each dental appointment.
I don't know what to do, I'm going crazy!!
But still, its better now than it was before.
Anyway, the spry came through, and didnt help. I still got reactions today. But maybe it will help when I am in a larger room. I dont know..........

2years for getting your wisdom teeth pulled? Where are you from? I went to the dentist for the first time in 5years, he said he is 99%sure that my wisdom teeth is causing my extreme bad breath.. I have a smell from my nose and mouth that people react on from 10-15 feet away. I don't think I have BO. He called the oral surgant for an apointment right away. I got an appointment five weeks later.
But I was desperate, so I called the oral surgant my self, told her my situation, and got an appointment the day after.

I had my wisdom teeth extraction two days ago, I was going to remove the two lower teeths, but she would only take one at the time.

Try to contact another dentist or an oral surgant at your own, don't give up. Tell them about your terrible BB. My wisdom teeth had an partal eruption, how is yours?

Sorry, didnt read your other post. I guess it makes it a little more complicated.

Hi pleasehelp,my upper left wisdom tooth is partially erupted and I am pretty sure it is the source of my BB.
It is the only one visible as the others are all below the gum line (i.e. havent pushed through yet). My Xray showed that the other wisdom teeth are somewhat horizontal, so they will not be pushing through the gum, so I am sure that I need only to extract the one tooth.
Since I started using the system I described above, my general mouth has felt quite clean, but if I use my tongue to rub on the wisdom tooth I am able to smell the BB. So it looks like it starts from there and spreads to the rest of my mouth.
Another thing I am worried about is that if the BB comes from my throat/the back of my mouth, then the wisdom tooth might not be the issue.
Let us know if your situation improved since taking out the wisdom teeth.

I am wondering if this is my problem - a couple of questions - do you guys have pain with these wisdom teeth??? I have had only one extracted and the others the dentist have said will never need to come out. I do not have any pain at all and none are poking through???

Also, I have a lot of stevia in the cupboard. Do you think this will work like Xylitol? It is said to have anti-bacterial properties as well.

Hi Tired,

I used to have pain with the tooth that is now erupted. The pain used to be on and off, and I guess this is when the tooth was pushing through the gum. I have not experienced this pain for a long while, and I assume this is because the tooth has come through (although only partially).

I never realised that I had BB until about February/March last year after I had a serious cold that lasted about a month. During that cold, and after it, I noticed the BB and started getting reactions off people.

I am trying to link the start of the BB with the end of the pain of my wisdom tooth. I cannot say that the BB started after the tooth came through as I do not remember when it did, but I certainly haven't experienced that pain in a while.

None of my other wisdom teeth hurt, and like I said before, they seem to be growing somewhat horizontally and therefore should not come out/ need to be extracted.

I do not know if Stevia will work, do some research on it to find out. Otherwise, a pack of xylitol is not too expensive, and you could try that.

Personally, I do not think it is the xylitol that has appeared to reduce my BB. I think it is the mouthwashes that do most of the hard work, and the xylitol sort of 'holds the fort up' during the rest of the day (although at the moment it is failing to do this as effectively as I would like!!).

Hello guys. I've just registered here to share my experience and help you. I suffered from strong halictosis for many years. I was very sad and desperate to do something about it. I tried quite a few doctors (dentists, gastroenterlogists and ENT doctors) and also researched many articles in magazines and online. There can be many causes of halictoses and that is why you have to try many different doctors and medicines. First of all dentist (problems with teeth, gums...), gastroenterologist (need to check the stomach for possible infection or helicobacter, food remainings may be stucking on the way to stomach...) and ENT-ears, nose, throat specialist (examine nose, throat, tonsils, possible infection or flem (mucus) in the throat = post nasal drip). All the time i thought the smell comes from stomach but it was not the case. IN MOST CASES THE SMELL COMES FROM NOSE, THROAT, TONSILS...but not stomach. I have done lot of research and tried so many medicines, also alternative medicine but my research led me to ENT specialist for help and i found out by myself the cause is POST NASAL DRIP because i felt lot of mucus in my throat. It was coming from nasal sinuses. The doctor was really helpful and experienced in this and he said he gonna help in 1 or 2 months. After 4-5 weeks smell was gone (i also had bad smell coming from my nose). If you feel mucus (flem) in your throat the cause of bad breath is probably POST NASAL DRIP and possible infection on tonsils.
Madicine i was given:
week 1: Vibrocil spray (for nose), Pamycon (drops for nose), Clarinase tablets, Erdomed tablets, Jox (for desinfection of throat and tonsils)
week 2-5: Nasobec spray (nose), Pamycon (nose), Clarinase, ACC (tablets 14days), Sinupret (tablets 14 days, after ACC)
(medicines may have different names in different countires, some of them are only on prescription, you can google the possible different names of this medicines)

PS: none of advertised and overpriced bad breath comercial products (bad breath mouthwashs) worked for me, you must see specialist doctors!

I wish you all good luck and I really hope this information will help you.

Markus, are you saying that after taking all the meds that you are suggesting here you are postnasal drip free? And are you free of it even when eating all kinds of foods - dairy, wheat, etc..? What was your exact diagnose? Thanks.