My past 4 months

[bad day1]

I just want to share with you the actions I've taken the past 4 months for my bb, and the results of each action.

1. Underwent breath test for H-pylori - result came back negative, no H-pylori
2. Had my last remaining wisdom tooth extracted - BB did not go away
3. Took a 14-day course of Flagyl - had some positive results at day 3, then BB came back. By day 10, I stopped taking the meds.
4. Took a 14-day course of anti-candida meds (Biozole) - no effect after 14 days, not even a worsening of BB that I expected during a die-off period.

So after all these, I am back at square one. Still no info on what is the underlying cause of my BB. I tried reading old posts again, and saw aydinmur's groupings of BB types. I thought of assuming I have Type 1 BB then try out curing myself with zinc-containing products, as aydinmur advised.

I found a Listerine with zinc chloride and a Sensodyne toothpaste with zinc citrate. After using the products, I got temporary relief. My tongue is pink, and no negative reactions from people I converse with. But BB returns after an hour or two.

Now I'm asking myself am I really a Type 1 sufferer since zinc has a positive effect on me? Also, I was already 32 when people started commenting on my breath 2yrs ago. What caused then the change in my oral ecology? Can another one's saliva alter my oral eco balance? (my BB started a couple of weeks after I met my wife, but she does not have chronic BB). Did I eat something or drink something that caused the imbalance?

Given that my oral ecology has been altered, how can I force another alteration? If my oral ecology was changed and became a bad ecology, can I do something to alter it again and possibly arrive at a good ecology? I read about the one with the metal ball in the tongue whose oral ecology changed when the ball was removed, and became BB free. If I do the same thing and introduce a foreign object in my mouth (like a silver denture), or remove my metal fillings, thus changing my oral ecology, is it possible to arrive at a positive ecology by doing these?

[halitosisux]

Sorry to hear after so much effort you still havent found your cause.
Try to keep this momentum going because this is all about trial and error and you can at least rule out some important basics by what you've done so far. Go through the whole forum and make a list of possibilities and work your way through them, there's ALWAYS something yet to try in this battle.

At this stage, without any visible signs or symptoms of anything wrong (im assuming) have you considered trying BLIS K-12 or any other oral probiotic therapy like one poster has recently been detailing has helped them? I personally have no experience of using this, but if our ecology does happen to unfortunately swing in favour of a poor bacterial balance in terms of our breath odour production, then something ongoing like this could work.

Would be worthwhile having a full system check by a doctor, blood tests etc to test your liver function and kidneys etc.
Good luck.

[sputnik]

@ Bad Day

I read somewhere that Zinc Chloride & Citrate weren't near as effective as Zinc Gluconate for treating type1 bb .

If the zinc products you tried had some effects, I strongly suggest you try zinc gluconate. Here's a link or simply try to google it (stay clear of therabreath products, they don't work):

http://www.nutritiongeeks.com/showprodu ... m_term=469

Be careful on dosage though.

[bad day1]

@Hal

Thanks a lot for the BLIS K-12 tip. The idea behind the BLIS products looks promising, and is actually what I picture as cure for a Type 1 BB - something specifically made for the mouth, and intended to alter the oral population.

Have you read about anyone who has used this product? I'm planning to purchase some K12-containing products as they are available here in Singapore. Although something caught my attention when I visited the BLIS website - the site indicates K12 products are available in the USA through Dr. Katz. I suddenly felt disillusioned, but I'll still give it a try, no harm in trying.

[bad day1]

@sputnik

Thanks a lot for the reply. I'm currently interested in zinc-containing products. I bought a bottle of zinc supplement, (the label says 50mg of elemental zinc, not sure what that means), and tried to use the tablets as lozenges, hoping that the zinc will alter my oral flora. After I sucked two tablets, no noticeable effect.

I'm actually looking for zinc chloride in its pure form. I suppose the zinc chloride is causing the positive effect when I use the zinc-containing mouthwash. But since the zinc-chloride is just one of at least 10 active ingredients of the mouthwash, it is not as potent. I'm assuming that it will be more effective if not diluted by other ingredients. I'm just not sure whether a pure zinc chloride product is available out there.

Thanks also for the zinc gluconate tip. I'll try to look for this product also. Although I find it quite amusing that wikipedia says "zinc gluconate injections are used to neuter male dogs" :-)

[Phantasist]

Somehow I don't find that at all amusing.

[halitosisux]

Hey bad day,
I've only just fairly recently been reading about BLIS K-12.

I dont know of anyone specifically who has benefitted. Many have said they didnt benefit. There's a couple of threads discussing it. It doesnt seem that many people on here have type 1 BB only, and I dont think it does much for anything other than type 1, which might be why most feedback on this forum is negative.

The concept for a Type-1 BB seems acceptible enough to try it, although its a shame that the BB mafia have it licensed/patented or whatever allowing them to charge extortionate amounts.

[bad day1]

@phantasist

I understand your reaction. But chemical compounds really do have quite a number of applications, some very surprising ones.

Take for example zinc chloride, the active ingredient of my mouthwash now. I remember my brother, whose work is in electronics, just a few days ago asked me if I knew that zinc chloride is used as flux for soldering galvanised iron. I've also read somewhere that you can get zinc chloride from smoke bombs, and that it is used as a fireproofing agent, and that it is used as a fabric freshener.

Thus technically, I've already gargled a fireproofing agent and a fabric freshener. So the idea of gargling something that neuters dogs made me laugh a bit.

[bad day1]

Hey hal,

Yeah, a bit frustrating to see something that looks quite promising tied up to therabreath. I'll still try the product, as it really looks like it matches up with a Type-1 BB. I'll also be looking for those xylitol smint by the way.

I read someone here put forth the idea that a problematic tongue could actually be a symptom of an affliction somewhere else in the body. Any thoughts on this? Have you encountered any material that definitely says that this so and so malady in your so and so body organ is the cause of the bad smell and white coating of your tongue.

The idea is quite worrying; how would I know what to test for if I feel healthy, look healthy; plus the fact the doctors are not that cooperative with seemingly healthy patients, it will be very difficult to convince the doc to perform tests.

[Ngeetann]

Hi,

I am living in Singapore, purchased K12 from Australia and stopped using them. 2 bottles with me and expire May 2011. Let me know if you want to try them and I can give it to you. Dont waste your money buying them!!

e-mail me at [email protected]

[bad day1]

@Ngeetan

Thanks for sharing. I've also read your message and have replied to it. I feel sorry that you did not get the positive result we hope for from K12. I'll drop you a note once I've decided to try them out.

Thanks again, I really appreciate it.

[halitosisux]

Ngeetann, what kind of BB do you have? Is it only from your tongue? does it come out of your nose too?

[halitosisux]

bad day1,
If for whatever reason we get dehydrated (temporary digestive issues can cause this) or we're going thru a phase of having poor appetite (commonly occurs during any illness) we usually end up with a coated tongue.

Some people just have faster cell shedding than others, or bigger tongue papillae, which can both lead to having slightly more coating than normal.

To a doctor the tongue is like a barometer of health. It doesnt indicate anything of certainty. All it indicates is that the natural shedding of dead cells isnt being removed like it normally should be, so it builds up and results in a coating. Sometimes the colour of the coating can indicate certain things going on, such as acid reflux.

Go a day without eating anything or drinking much and your tongue will quickly get coated, as usually happens during religious fasting.

Most people with BB are told to scrape their tongue. This does help reduce the odour, but its also a vicous circle because most people scrape way too hard on this delicate surface and the tongue's natural protective response is to grow a thicker coating. This then further increases the anaerobic surface area, perpetuating the situation until you would probably be better off just leaving your tongue alone and letting it settle down to its natural levels.

[bad day1]

Hey hal,

Yeah I definitely agree with you about this being a vicious cycle. I know I am caught in one. I usually notice thicker coating on days I scrub my tongue more; I also feel more mucus in my throat. I just can't escape the cycle. If I need to function at all in office, I really need the temporary relief I get from scrubbing my tongue.

[Phantasist]

Bad day1,
I have had some success during the last three weeks with a procedure which I described in a thread called "Oral Hygiene Regimen That May Help" on August 5, 2010.
I would say about 80% reduction in bad breath.