My Journey - Almost Over

[EndInSight]

Here is a BRIEF synopsis:

Had poor oral hygiene (not nonexistent but not perfect) growing up which was my own fault.

Chewed sugarless gum all through high school to cover up my lazziness and that worked fairly well.

Had plenty of friends and g/f's who never said anything (and they would have).

The summer before my Jr. year of college I was home over the summer and my mom told me my breath smelt TERRIBLE.

I made an appt. with the dentist immediately and I did indeed have SEVERAL cavities which I got filled.

So, I realized it was time to stop being a lazy shit and start taking great care of my teeth... Which I did. I stopped chewing gum completely to get a better grasp on eliminating ever having to worry about my breath. I have since developed perfect hygiene EVERY day.

So this is when it gets weird...

After I gave up the gum chewing I started getting these awful whiffs of straight shit smell. They would be when I was by myself or around other people so I was certain the smell was from me. They would come and go in an instance. I WAS FLIPPING OUT. Also, when I was face to face with people talking I would smell a terrible smell that I was convinced was coming from me that they could smell. The whole 1st semester of my Jr. year was ruined because I developed a severe case of paranoia that I was always smelling like shit around everyone. I couldn't understand why my friends weren't saying anything. Over winter break when I was home both my parents and sister said they couldn't smell anything (I was still experiencing these shit smells). I didn't end up asking my friends until a few more months had passed (they also said I don't have an issue with bad breath). One of my friends was actually amazed that was why I had been acting so weird for the past 8 months. Still, I was constantly searching the web for what the hell this horrible smell that maybe only I could be smelling was coming from. Even after being told by my parents and sister and two best friends that I DID AND DO NOT have a halitosis problem I am still not convinced. The smells I am experiencing are real and even if I am the only one who can smell it I will find the conclusion and be rid of this hell forever.

So HERE ARE SOME ANSWERS (I'm going all out ... Luckily my pops has a good insurance plan):

Flossing 2x a day helps
Brushing 2x a day helps
ORA BRUSH TONGUE SCRAPER - does wonders
Crest NON ALCOHOLIC Mouthwash - does wonders
Sonic Toothbrush - does wonders
THERABREATH didn't work for me (pretty sure because my issues are deeper than just brushing) but is a good product

Tonsils were removed as a young kid so that's not an issue.

September 2009 - AS STATED ABOVE I had my cavities
filled. Started PERFECT oral hygiene regimen.

August 2, 2010 - tested for diabetes... nada.

August 8, 2010 - went to ENT. Didn't really do anything. I had a lot of ear wax deep in ear though because I always use q tips which actually just pushes the wax deeper into the ear... Who knew? He stuck a camera up nose and didn't really do anything... He gave me a script to get a ct scan.

August 13, 2010 - I had two "partially impacted" (lower jaw) wisdow teeth removed. I only had two. I noticed a "frutty" smell when I would rub back there with my index finger and then smell. So I was convinced this was problem as the nasal cavity and wisdom teeth are so close. Both teeth were situated back there for years partially erupted and easily could have accumulated bacterial pockets. I've notice a decrease in these "phantom" bad smells in the following two months after the surgery... However, something was still not right in my mind. My mouth and throat still felt unnaturally dirty (which there is no way it should with my oral hygiene now).

September 30, 2010 - I had an upper endoscopy... THE DOCTOR FOUND BILE (are you kidding me) in my stomach and also came across an ulcer. He took a biopsy and I have another appt. Oct. 13 to discuss the biopsy to see if H. Pylori is present. In the meantime I was perscribed Sucralfate. He also has had me begin taking "gas x," "prilocec otc," and "citrucel." The medication has for sure helped a lot with my constipation (you get the picture) and has taken away the disgusting taste and whitish tint of my tongue. So, I'm pretty sure we're on the right track here and I look forward to the biopsy results in a little over a week (I will be updating). Also, a candida infection of the throat was RULED OUT. At my follow up on the 13th I am going to ask what he thinks about a lower endoscopy also. I honestly don't care what I have to do I am going to do it.

September 31, 2010 - I went to see a periodontist. I did this on my own. My dentist said "NO WAY DO I HAVE ANY FORM OF PERIODONTAL DISEASE." Well he is a ****ing asshole. I've had gum pain above a tooth for a while and my dentist wasn't able to tell me shit about it. He just shrugged. So I went to the best peiodontist I could find and told him my issues with smell and constant concerns about my breath. He took full updated X RAYS of all my teeth and entire mouth (my original dentist didn't even take xrays of my front teeth). Also, the periodontist used the instrument for determining pockets (they aren't supposed to be any deeper than 3)... I HAVE NUMEROUS pockets of depths measuring 4-6 and one even measuring a 7. So my dentist is a dick. I am scheduled to have 2 root scaling/planning procedures done. NOV 2 AND NOV 19. I'm honestly so pissed at my dentist. Is there any way he could be liable for negligence? I'll update on those two procedures also.

October 4, 2010 - Finally had CT Scan done of sinuses. My ENT is going to see this and my periodontist wants to see this... I'll update soon.

NOTE: I MADE IT A POINT TO LET EACH DR. (I EVEN WENT TO MY GENERAL DR. FOR THE DIABETES TEST) KNOW THAT I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT MY BREATH. I LOOKED THEM STRAIGHT IN THE FACE AND ASKED IF MY BREATH SMELT. 6 DR'S ALL LOOKED ME IN THE FACE AND COULD NOT SMELL A THING OF BB THROUGHOUT OUR CONVERSATION. I SPOKE WITH MY PERIODONTIST FOR 45 MINUTES AND HE MADE IT A POINT TO SIT RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE WHILE I SPOKE. HE SAID HE SMELT NOTHING. I ASKED HIM IF A DR. WOULD EVER EVER HAVE ANY REASON TO LIE. HE SAID ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Still, these phantom smells have an origin. I will figure it out (i am pretty sure that the bile reflux i have is the culprit) and get my life back. This past year has been hell. I will continue to post my findings. LET ME KNOW ANY QUESTIONS OR ANYONE WHO MAYBE HAS A SAME EXPERIENCE. At first, I thought maybe my sense of smell was altered by my years of chewing sugarless gum.

Anyways ... I'll keep the updates coming

[mike987]

Congrats on getting stuff done...

All I can say though, is I wish I merely had phantom smells.

[Phantasist]

This is really very strange. You're telling us that no one can smell your bad breath besides you. Usually it is the other way around.

[halitosisux]

EndInSight, good post, great determination you've shown so far.
Good luck with the coming appointments.

Have a read of this, its something you should be aware of if you arent already aware of it. Its not the only condition affecting the sense of smell that could relate to BB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olfactory_ ... e_Syndrome

[stressedout]

Hey EndInSight,

You have probably fixed whatever problem you had with your original BB, but psychologically you are not over it and if you keep obsessing over it and your body undergoes constant stress, and you keep convincing yourself you have BB, that can be the reason under those phantom odors (i can relate, you are not alone).

Try to relax, continue having a good hygene without making your mouth and tongue suffer from overdoing it, eat right, and treat yourself like it is all gone, like you are BB free, sleep well, do things that help you get your mind off BB - especially being with your loved ones. See if you get better and the phantom odors might go away. Good luck.

[bbsux]

Dood are you even getting any reactions from people??? if you are not getting reactions from people than you probably dont have bb bro. I get reactions when i try to talk.

[EndInSight]

Haliosisux (I have a couple questions for you at the end because you seem to know your stuff and I appreciate your help): I have never heard of this Olfactory Reference Syndrome... I have 100% started to become obsessed about all smells of my body since the whole BB was brought up. Shame, embarassment, avoidant behavior, and even social isolation to a degree for the past year. I have/and still pretty much do each compulsive behavior listed there besides the candles... After my mom told me about my breath I flipped out and started to take the whole breath thing to a whole new unhealthy level. Also, searching the web and realizing the MANY causes of bad breath had me dejected. Once my cavities were filled was when I gave up chewing gum and taking my oral care to a new level which needed to happen. BUT, that is when it started that I would smell these shit smells at random times and also when I would talk in close proximity with my friends. I was back at college now at this time and did not have my mom to ask to smell my breath. I figured (through my own thinking) that my friends were just being nice... But I wondered why when we would make jokes about each other they wouldn't just say "well your breath smells like shit." Well, my level of paranoia went through the ****ing roof as the fall semester went on. I didn't ask any of my friends because I was just too embarassed.

When I got home for winter break I was relieved to have my mom be able to smell my breath. I would have her do it MANY times a day. Each time ... no. It would only smell in the morning right when I woke up. I also finally talked to my dad about it because I was at a point mentally where I didn't care about feeling embarassment. He also said no BB. So at this point I was stumped. I was wondering if they weren't telling the truth now. I had read somewhere online where people always lie about breath being bad which I admit is stupid because my mom was the first person who ever told me...

I asked my best friend at school when we came back from break. I said, "Dude, just tell me the truth on this. Do I have bad breath all the time when were talking. And why haven't you said anything." He said, "What are you talking about you don't have BB." WTF.

I didn't believe my best friend or my parents. These smells would not let me believe them.

I asked another one of my really good friends during the summer if I had bad breath. I said "Do I have bad breath all the time when I am around you." He said "What." I said, "You always rub your nose whenever I'm around. Is that becasue I smell like shit?" He honestly didn't even realize he rubbed his nose it was just something he did. He told me I needed to relax and asked if this is why I had been acting so weird the past few months.

I had been starting to come to grips that maybe I had gotten over this after my Wisdom Teeth removal (the smells weren't as often/strong). So I was doing alright and then I went over to baby sit my younger cousins about a month ago. My 4 year old cousin was right in my face talking (about 5 inches) and all I could notice was that her breath smelt terrible. I stayed close talking to her though because it wasn't the normal shit smell that had been troubling me. That is when she said "ew you have boo boo breath." I texted my mom and told her my younger cousin just told me I had BB and I started going back to obsessing again. ***k. I am convinced it was her breath. She is the only person (besides once from my BF in high school and my mom) that has straight up said my breath stank. Everything else that has made me think I smell is from actions I "percieve" from others... I thought two of my best friends were smelling my "odor" and when I finally built up the courage to ask them they 100% opposed the idea I had any kind of halitosis.

I have a sibling who also says no BB from me.

Also ... whenever I'm driving in my car (at least once in a 15 min drive) I'll get an intense rotten egg smell. The smell seems to be coming from the air vent when the air conditioning is on. However, the air can be off and if the windows are down is when the smell will be the strongest. I have believed that this smell is from me letting out this rotten egg smell and then it being entered into air vent and then being blown out so I can smell it.

This summer I drove pretty much everyday with a kid on my team to games who is a pretty good friend... I would ask him about the rotten egg smell in my car and be like "dude, is that my breath." He said no it's your cadilidic converter or some shit. He 100% said he had never smelt my breath as bad and would tell me if he ever did becasue he realized my paranoia about it. It got to the point where if I asked him to tell me the truth about my breath he would hit me because he said "You have never had bad breath."

The kind of bad breath I think I have is the kind where if I am in a room everyone in the room can smell it. So, my friends and family would have to be not telling me the truth. When I am in class if someone across the room coughs I think it's because of me ... I know this isn't true but that is where I was at. I had gotten pretty low from this and it was scary... Alright I'm done rambling but I'm going to continue adding more as I go.

The medicine I am on for the BILE REFLUX has actually been making my mouth feel much better and whenever I cup my hand in front of mouth and smell it smells the cleanest ever. So maybe this actually was the cause...

TO Halitosisux ------- I came across TMAU when I've been trying to find out what the hell is wrong with me... I know it is a fish odor smell which I never smell. It also says that other smells can be released like a fecal smell or rotten egg smell. Is that a disease where symptoms are shown from birth or can start in the later teen years.
Also, as I mentioned before I DO have as the periodontist stated "mild periodontitis." My teeth are pretty white because of my oral hygiene this past year. I spoke in his face describing my symptoms for 45 minutes and he assured me I did not have BB/ODOR. When he did his exam he was surprised though to find numerous pocket depts measuring mostly 4-6 and one was actually a 7 (normal is 1-3). The deepest were back where my wisdom teeth had been removed. When I floss my gums don't bleed ... He said the damage I have is not enough to cause horrible breath but could possibly be the source of this random "whiffs of shit" I get that have been driving me ****ing insane and not believing the people who care about me the most. Halitosisux what do you think about this possibility. It may be a mixture of my Bile Reflux and debri that has been residing up in my gums in my mouth that has been causing this smell?

Let me know and I'll keep everyone updated on the results I get back from my procedures in the coming months...
Writing this out helps a lot. Makes me think I'm crazy though... I vow to start going around relaxed and not avoiding conversation.

Also ... I came across a mouthwash that basically costs nothing... 3% hydrogen peroxide topical solution mixed with water (50% HPTS and 50% water) ... I struggle gargling any type of mouthwash and most commercial ones dry my mouth out and just don't work... This mixture is a winner and I found it on this site.

[bbsmells]

Hi EndInSight,
it is so crazy that i am going through a similar situation, but everyone smells my breath except me. i always hear people saying my breath smells like shit. i have never smelled shit coming from my breath though. i have had my back two wisdom teeth removed and i noticed that there are deep pockets back there that could make me smell. I also have spaces between my teeth and cavities. i am going to have scaling and fillings as soon as i get the money. how much do you thing scaling costs? i don't have dental insurance any suggestions on good dental insurance companies? the bb issue has been ruining my college experience and my life in every aspect! i also read about the TMAU thing you mentioned. I have smelled a fishy odor from the back of my throat and i have a bad taste in my mouth all day. i chew sugarless gum, but people still make comments about my breath being bad. hoping the scaling will help.

[EndInSight]

BBsmells

I only had my bottom two wisdom teeth (I didn't have any upper WT at all). The one on the left was partially impacted since I was like 17 so I'm sure bacteria was able to accumulate there as there was a tiny hole where the tooth rose above the gum and ran into my molar. When I rubbed my finger over it and sniffed it would be a fruity smell... The wisdom tooth on the right was fully covered over by my gum. I'm almost two months out since my WT surgery and what has improved is the overall taste in my mouth and fewer "ramdon wiffs" of the bad smell. I still have pockets back there and I have tried my best to keep them extremely clean. The periodontist said my worst readings were back where the WT had been removed and also surrounding my upper molars so I'm excited to get the root scaling/planning done in early Nov. As I said earlier my last year I have done above and beyond the neccessary oral hygiene routine. Therefore, the bacteria pockets he found in my mouth are over a year old and my brushing, flossing, etc. still have no effect in riding these bacteria pockets that formed when I was lazy.
If you have spaces between your teeth it's even more important to floss as food gets trapped there more easily. Are your cavities filled? A large cavity can easily cause constant BB. Even several small cavities may be the problem. So most importantly you want to get the cavities filled. After that I would schedule an appt with a periodontist to check to see if you actually have periodontal disease. He will see you and use a priodontal probe in your gums to see if there is an issue. The consultation should be around 80 bucks. That's a great start.
The periodontal procedure is expensive. I'm under my parents' insurance but I believe my procedure is going to be a little under $1,000. My insurance plan is going to cover it. Depending on the extent of periodontal disease (if any) your price could be less or it could be more.
The advice I can give you is when you go to Dr.'s and spend your own money make sure you make the most of that appt and go in prepared with all questions you have and make sure they know why your there (BB). Don't leave until you get the answers you need. Also, practice perfect oral hygiene and stop chewing gum. Gum can actually make your breath worse.
The TMAU thing honestly I'm not that much of an expert on and me bringing that up is more just due to paranoia I've developed and wanting to rule out absolutely everything...

Let me know how it goes

[mike987]

I keep seeing that claim 'gum can make your breath worse'. Does anyone know why it might do that?

[mike987]

EndInSight, good post, great determination you've shown so far.
Good luck with the coming appointments.

Have a read of this, its something you should be aware of if you arent already aware of it. Its not the only condition affecting the sense of smell that could relate to BB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olfactory_ ... e_Syndrome

The problem with the ORS article is that if someone actually did have an odor problem, you would expect them to do all of those things, right??

I can see how some people might just have it all in their heads, but it's almost like this 'syndrome' was created and documented so doctors can blow us off and just say 'oh, he clearly has ORS. See! He fits the bill perfectly" Well no shit, of course someone who stinks is not only going to make extra efforts to freshen up, their also going to be paranoid about it.

[halitosisux]

EndInSight, its quite likely that you have developed at least a degree of halitophobia from the experiences that you've been through.

The lack of oral hygiene and the neglect of your dental health will have likely led to the formation of your cavities and may have contributed to the depth of some of your gum pockets, which can still be reversed with professional help and continued good practices.

You may have had multiple dental causes to your BB, including your cavities, gum pockets and wisdom teeth.

But what you have to always bear in mind is how close your nose will be to some occasional (and completely normal) releases of concentrated odours from your mouth from time to time, when trapped debris is released for example. And even a slight odour from the tongue can feel like it could be causing bad breath, but the reality is that in most cases its just the proximity of the nose to this concentrated patch of odour, which is too weak by the time it's exhaled into the air for anyone else to smell it. The nose too can develop infected hair follicles or stagnated mucus that can smell very pungent because its right in your nose, but its completely undetectable to anyone else. As an example of what I mean, find anything that has a pungent odour and place a TINY amount of that on your nostrils. If you didnt know it was there you'd swear that you must be infesting the air around you and that this smell was what everyone else can smell - which absolutely isnt the case.

What you also need to consider is that your mum originally told your about your BB because its something that she felt needed to be addressed and so she told you. Why would she lie about it now if you still had BB. Why would everyone else you seem to ask also be denying it so categorically? Your 4 year old cousin may well have been detecting her own BB.


Regarding the bile discovered in your stomach, I dont know for certain whether that's normal or not. I know bile can reflux into the stomach, so try to find out what's going on there. I think bile will neutralise any acidity in your stomach because its highly alkaline. If you render your stomach alkaline enough then its contents after a meal could feasibly become malodourous quite quickly and release these occasional whiffs. Maybe try asking someone to assess your burps when you think you are getting one of these whiffs, because if your stomach contents have putrified, then your burps will smell of that.

Regarding TMAU, there are many ways this problem can manifest itself, but fairly straightforward to test for and hopefully rule out if you choose to do so.

Its very easy to start feeling despair and dejection when repeated efforts to deal with such a problem seem to fail time and time again. And reading stories and cases of people seemingly unable to find the cause to their problem will further add to this. But BB is usually a curable problem for most people, and for every single case of BB there is, an answer probably already exists. I guarantee there is not a single person on this forum who has tried everything there is to try.

[halitosisux]

Mike I see what you're saying. That even if someone really did have BB that others keep denying the existence of, that they'll still perfectly fit the bill of having ORS. But seriously, there's sometimes proper research into various causes of BB that prove that there's always a pecentage of people who are PURELY halitophobic and it must be from these types of studies where theories like ORS are devised.

[stressedout]

Its very easy to start feeling despair and dejection when repeated efforts to deal with such a problem seem to fail time and time again. And reading stories and cases of people seemingly unable to find the cause to their problem will further add to this. But BB is usually a curable problem for most people, and for every single case of BB there is, an answer probably already exists. I guarantee there is not a single person on this forum who has tried everything there is to try.

So true! Very encouraging post halitosisux, when we read sad stories of others it adds to our obsession and its easy to start wondering if you might have the same thing, and then its a longer road to recovery.