White Coating With No Odor!

[Phantasist]

I did a little experiment this morning:
After getting up and before brushing my teeth, I could easily smell my breath. I scraped some white coating off my tongue and deposited it on a piece of stiff paper. I waited about 15 minutes to make sure it was dry. Then I tested my sense of smell with some after shave lotion. No problem smelling that. Then I tried to smell the white coating on the paper, fully expecting that there would be a very distinct odor. To my surprise there was no odor. As hard as I tried to smell it, I couldn't smell anything except the paper itself. I sniffed the paper repeatedly front and back and there was only a very faint smell from the paper, but absolutely nothing from the
smudge of white coating!
This is another puzzle, because I was pretty convinced that my bad breath was coming from the white coating on my tongue, but the coating by itself appears to be odorless.
I will try the experiment again to verify the result.

[danger]

i have noticed a similar thing.

when i do the finger test right down the middle of my tongue and smell my finger straight away i usually cant detect any odour. if i let the finger dry( roughly about 5 minutes) i notice an odour on my finger. but then if i check my finger again about 5 minutes after that the odour has gone again, without me washing my finger or anything



does your coating on your tongue stink after you scrape it off?

[halitosisux]

Phantasist, even when my tongue used to smell really strongly, I remember trying exactly the same experiment and I also couldnt smell anything resembling the usual odour I'd get when I'd just wipe my finger on my tongue and smell it. Its strange, even if I'd 'shave' my tongue and gather it all up into a clump, it wouldnt smell. It would only smell when i rubbed my finger over the surface of my tongue or around the gum around my wisdom tooth.

I wonder if there is something which manages to neutralize the odour once its collected in this manner and taken out of the mouth, but inside the mouth this ability becomes overwhelmed so the odour is able to build up and become established.

It may also be because the odourous chemicals are so volatile that they evaporate quickly and odour quickly reduces to a low level.

I think a coated tongue will be exacerbative for anyone with an underlying cause of BB because it will increase the anaerobic area of the tongue and also act as a sponge for the buildup of odourous chemicals. But as you have seen, the coating itself, which is mostly made of up dead cells, food debris and keratin, doesnt smell of much.

This can explain why some people can have a clearly coated tongue, but have no bad breath, because coated tongue isnt itself the underlying cause.

Danger, you probably have nothing to be concerned about regarding type 1 BB if you cant instantly detect a strong stench when you rub your tongue in this way.

And I have smelled the saliva of people who dont have any BB at all, and yet their saliva still have some odour to it.

[danger]

sux, occasionally it smells straight away when i do the finger test: in the morning for example, or the odd time during the day like after i have eaten chocolate i have noticed, but the majority of the time i have to let the odour dry. when you say you have smelled the saliva of bad breath free people, do you mean saliva which has come into contact with their tongue or just straight saliva?

i am beginning to think these tastes i get is when my mouth is drying out. if i stick my tongue out and let it dry i sense like an eggy smell, but even then when i do the finger test i dont get a noticable odour straight away.

also, i know your tongue stank when you had your bad wisdom tooth in, and you noticed a change straight away on your tongue. i have not noticed a massive difference to my tongue. could an impacted wisdom tooth give you really bad breath with the smell coming from the wisdom tooth area alone, without it spreading to the tongue etc? because if it was my wisdom tooth that gave me this terrible breath that must have been what happened with me

[halitosisux]

Danger, odour is normal in the morning from stagnation.

I have managed to smell the saliva of a few people who never seem to have BB. This was a general sample of saliva from the mouth.
Every mouth has a certain amount of 'background odour' so its impossible for saliva to be completely odour free.

I would think that every tongue will immediately have an increase in odour if its allowed to start drying out. There's billions of bacteria sitting on every tongue, it would be impossible for there to be no odour at all. When the tongue dries out VSCs start to evaporate and odours increase.

Good question about whether the odour from a wisdom tooth alone could cause BB. I can only say that the way it made my tongue smell, it would have to spread to the tongue and cause the tongue to increase in its odour. Perhaps certain dental problems can cause BB by itself, such as a rotten tooth.
I think its far more likely that if your wisdom tooth was causing you to have BB, it would have done so by causing your tongue to smell much worse than it is now. But because you are fixating on your tongue its very hard to imagine your tongue isnt continuing to cause you to have BB.

The only way you'll ever have peace of mind is to ask for feedback from a trusted person. Dont rely on reactions. Halitophobics are convinced they have BB and they'll have the same reasons you do for continuing to convince themselves.

[danger]

Danger, odour is normal in the morning from stagnation.

I have managed to smell the saliva of a few people who never seem to have BB. This was a general sample of saliva from the mouth.
Every mouth has a certain amount of 'background odour' so its impossible for saliva to be completely odour free.

I would think that every tongue will immediately have an increase in odour if its allowed to start drying out. There's billions of bacteria sitting on every tongue, it would be impossible for there to be no odour at all. When the tongue dries out VSCs start to evaporate and odours increase.

Good question about whether the odour from a wisdom tooth alone could cause BB. I can only say that the way it made my tongue smell, it would have to spread to the tongue and cause the tongue to increase in its odour. Perhaps certain dental problems can cause BB by itself, such as a rotten tooth.
I think its far more likely that if your wisdom tooth was causing you to have BB, it would have done so by causing your tongue to smell much worse than it is now. But because you are fixating on your tongue its very hard to imagine your tongue isnt continuing to cause you to have BB.

The only way you'll ever have peace of mind is to ask for feedback from a trusted person. Dont rely on reactions. Halitophobics are convinced they have BB and they'll have the same reasons you do for continuing to convince themselves.

i understand that morning breath is normal for nearly everybody, so when i have the bad taste in the morning it does not really bother me that much

so you mean saliva which is like spat out? if i spit on my hand i do not get any odour

i know every tongue has the potential to cause odours, but would it be possible for a tongue to dry out and produce an odour in seconds by doing certain self tests? because that is how i feel my tongue reacts sometimes. also, when people have occasional bad breath, do you think the majority of time that comes from the tongue when their mouth is dry?

and about my wisdom teeth, i cant remember exactly how bad my tongue was when my wisdom tooth was in. looking back at my old posts it must have been worse than it is now. i do remember doing that finger test after surfing the net when i knew i had bad breath, and i am sure i had an odour straight away and never had to wait for it to dry.

but i do remember very vividly the first time i got a disgusting taste in my mouth and it has never been as bad as this since, even when my wisdom tooth was still in. it must have been about a week after my brother first told my breath stank and i was desperate so i brushed my teeth, every tooth, in all i brushed my teeth for about 3 minutes. i then went and lied on my bed and i just opened my mouth and no joke, it was like i had literally shit in my mouth when i opened it, this happened for the rest of that day when i opened my mouth. and since i found out that that wisdom tooth might have been the problem i have always assumed that because i had probably never brushed that wisdom tooth thoroughly at the back of my jaw until then, it was that wisdom tooth that produced that stench

[halitosisux]

Danger, yes my point about morning breath is that when you rub your finger on your tongue at this time it will be normal to get more odour on your finger.

If your spit smells of nothing then my guess is that you are worrying over nothing. But without proper diagnostic testing or trusted feedback you can spend the rest of your life speculating over your breath and you'll never truly know where you stand. You should consider going to the UK meetups. One is coming up this weekend I think. If you have type 1 BB there is no such thing as nobody being able to smell that.

I think every tongue will immediately give off a degree of odour if it's allowed to dry out. I dont know if Aydinmur would be able to say more on this?

Mouth dryness one of many known causes of type 1 BB. So this can cause transient BB.

[danger]

Danger, yes my point about morning breath is that when you rub your finger on your tongue at this time it will be normal to get more odour on your finger.

If your spit smells of nothing then my guess is that you are worrying over nothing. But without proper diagnostic testing or trusted feedback you can spend the rest of your life speculating over your breath and you'll never truly know where you stand. You should consider going to the UK meetups. One is coming up this weekend I think. If you have type 1 BB there is no such thing as nobody being able to smell that.

I think every tongue will immediately give off a degree of odour if it's allowed to dry out. I dont know if Aydinmur would be able to say more on this?

Mouth dryness one of many known causes of type 1 BB. So this can cause transient BB.

that is quite a bold statement about the spit. i didnt think anybody's spit would smell on its own, surely the combination of saliva and the tongue is what makes people's tongues have odours?

to be honest, i dont think you can trust what aydinmur says. he seems to dodge alot of questions, and from what i have seen has contradicted himself on occasions

[halitosisux]

I'm not really sure what you mean, any saliva from the mouth is going to get mixed with whatever is in the mouth unless you purposely obtain gather some saliva by catching it as it comes out of the saliva ducts.

If I capture my saliva in this way then it has no smell whatsoever, but if I just spit some out from my mouth it always has slight odour to it.

I trust everything Aydinmur says because he only says things which he is totally certain about. Its difficult because there is still so much unknown. I dont think he contradicts himself, its how we all interpret what he says.

[danger]

I'm not really sure what you mean, any saliva from the mouth is going to get mixed with whatever is in the mouth unless you purposely obtain gather some saliva by catching it as it comes out of the saliva ducts.

If I capture my saliva in this way then it has no smell whatsoever, but if I just spit some out from my mouth it always has slight odour to it.

I trust everything Aydinmur says because he only says things which he is totally certain about. Its difficult because there is still so much unknown. I dont think he contradicts himself, its how we all interpret what he says.

ok, maybe i didnt explain myself very well. if i spit some saliva on my hand the normal way then i get basically no odour whatsoever, but this saliva was not sitting on my tongue so i wouldnt expect it to have any odour. but if i get a bit of saliva which has been sitting on my tongue then there is always some odour because it has been sitting on my tongue.
i may have misunderstood you but i assumed you were saying that if somebody's saliva from spit does not smell then they probably have nothing to worry about concerning bad breath? especially from an oral source?

and going back to how you said that a wisdom tooth would probably not cause bad breath without spreading to your tongue etc? surely that is not much different to people who have bad breath through not flossing? or do people who have bad breath through not flossing also have it spread to their tongues?

[halitosisux]

I dont know really. Its normal for saliva to have some odour to it. What that implies for someone wondering about their breath is all speculation.

I dont think simply not flossing will give anyone bad breath unless problems develop.

I also think that abnormal situations (like the one I had) apart from producing their own foul discharge, I think these abormal situations will also change the chemistry of the mouth, and thus the ecology, and also allow pre-existing species of bacteria to produce more odour than they otherwise would do, not to mention the alteration of bacteria profile to one which causes more odour production. Colonies of bacteria have interactions and effects on a host's immune system too which is another important factor.

[Phantasist]

About five days ago I started this thread and reported that the white coating on my tongue was completely odorless outside the mouth. I said that I would repeat the experiment to verify the result.
Well, it is difficult to repeat the experiment because the white coating on my tongue seems to have greatly diminished the last few days. I have been taking "Evora plus" oral probiotics for about three weeks, and they seem to be having an effect.
Here is my oral hygiene routine: I brush my teeth with regular toothpaste. Then I lightly scrape my tongue, leaving a thin film of coating. Then I gently brush my tongue with TheraBreath toothpaste and then I rinse with TheraBreath oral rinse. After waiting about ten minutes or so, I rinse with plain water and start disolving an Evora plus tablet on my tongue.
The idea of course is to reduce the amount of anaerobic bacteria on the dorsal surface of the tongue and replace them with the good bacteria from the oral probiotics. After about three weeks I am noticing a change. Both the white coating and the breath odor seem to be diminished. It appears that this routine is slowly changing the microfloral ecology in my mouth. It doesn't happen fast because the antibacterial toothpaste and rinse are probably killing off the good bacteria along with the bad. That's why you have to keep replacing the probiotics so they will eventually get the upper hand.
I am very hopeful that this regimen can work for people who have an overgrowth of anaerobic bacteria on the tongue.

[firebreath]

the spit test is in my opinion not the most reliable form of knowing whether you have BB or not.Let me explain why...

My son (5 years old) when he was a baby was always discharging huge amounts of saliva - like most babies , but , i did notice his saliva always had a sour smell , and when it got onto his clothes , i could smell it even from a foot or 2 away.He does not have BB (thankfully) but i did not notice this smell from my other children's saliva - they also do not suffer from BB.

Interestingly,my niece (3 years old) when was a baby always had saliva running from her mouth,even more so than my son's ,but her saliva never smelt.

I have also smelt spit from other relatives and although the spit has a smell they do not have BB.

I personally cannot make heads or tails from this but all i know is spit testing does not yield reliable results.

@ Phantasist -
have u noticed any people now reacting to you differently ?
is there any change in peoples behavior towards you?
i am wondering if the white tongue really was the cause of the BB...

[Phantasist]

Firebreath,
I have not noticed any reactions from people lately, but then again we are all halitophobes to some extent and I don't breathe directly into people's faces. I can always smell my own breath, but lately I am smelling much less, sometimes nothing.
Also, I wasn't talking about saliva. I was testing the white coating on the tongue after removing it from the mouth, and I could not detect any odor. This was quite a surprise to me. I had expected a strong smell. If the white coating itself doesn't have any odor, then is the odor coming from the saliva? Or is it the interaction between the coating and the saliva, or some other interaction in the mouth that I don't know about?
Anyway, the tongue coating is much thinner now and there isn't much to scrape off any more. I will probably stop scraping my tongue soon, especially since the coating is odorless. It does appear that the antibacterial tongue brushing and rinsing in combination with the oral probiotics has a beneficial effect in establishing a better microfloral environment in my mouth. Will it be a total cure? Who knows.

[Phantasist]

Halitosisux,

"I wonder if there is something which manages to neutralize the odour once its collected in this manner and taken out of the mouth, but inside the mouth this ability becomes overwhelmed so the odour is able to build up and become established."

I don't think the white coating has any special ability to neutralize its odor outside of the mouth.

"It may also be because the odourous chemicals are so volatile that they evaporate quickly and odour quickly reduces to a low level."

When I lick the inside of my wrist, the odor stays for hours.

"I think a coated tongue will be exacerbative for anyone with an underlying cause of BB because it will increase the anaerobic area of the tongue and also act as a sponge for the buildup of odourous chemicals."

This is probably true.

"This can explain why some people can have a clearly coated tongue, but have no bad breath, because coated tongue isnt itself the underlying cause."

This also appears to be the case.

"And I have smelled the saliva of people who dont have any BB at all, and yet their saliva still have some odour to it."

This one is a puzzle. Why should saliva have an odor? Is it interacting with something else in the mouth?

We should try to find out from Aydin Murat if my oral regimen of antibacterial tongue brushing and rinsing (TheraBreath Plus with OXYD-8 and zinc-Rx) in combination with Evora plus oral probiotics can change the microfloral ecology of the mouth.