A new Approach:10 Motivated European based Volunteers wanted

baguio · Post by **baguio** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:43 pm

OK, I want to propose that we try something different. Most of the current 'treatments' are not new and have been around for some time - with little evidence to suggest they can solve the problem.

I would like to propose the purchase of a halimeter (generally speaking they cost €1500 - but we may be able to get a better deal than that) - a group purchase between 10 motivated individuals. That would amount to a investment of approx. €150 each.

For that investment, you would get the use of the halimeter on a dedicated basis for x number of weeks (to be discussed and confirmed).

~ This would allow each of us to get accurate readings of when our breath is better/worse. - taking readings at different times of the day, before/after meals etc After certain foods, etc.

One reading at a clinic does not tell us much. Whatever the outcome, this will result in data that has never been available before.

For a small investment, you can play a part in taking an active step towards bringing about a solution. I am only looking for european based people out of practicallity. The device is relatively lightweight and can easily be fedex'ed from member to member inexpensively. The same could be organised by someone stateside.

If any of you have an interest in principal, please post here with your thoughts/comments.

yogs · Post by **yogs** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:46 pm

good Idea...I am interested but I am in the US?

Larc400 · Post by **Larc400** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:51 pm

Yeah I've been lobbying for this idea for ages, but the interest has seemed to be non-existent

although of course I was asking for people in the same country, which would obviously be difficult to find

So... good idea to widen the area to Europe, and Fed-exing between members.

I finally managed to rent a Halimeter for a few weeks from my dentist, hopefully I can rent it again soon. I think I had it for too short a period to draw any conclusions. I first set out a goal to get below a certain limit on awakening, meaning that I used various products in the evening and then checked the score the morning after. It was also good to have it in general, just to check what was going on throughout the day.

Do I trust it? Ehum, I'm not sure. In general it seems to correlate quite well with my own guess regarding the strength of my bb (which means it's rendered useless) at other times it gave confusing readings (for example I had a rather low score the day after a night of drinking, without even scraping my tongue in the evening etc). So, to summarise: probably useful for our research but it's a well-known fact that it doesn't measure all the gases causing our problem... it's still the best option, as we will never be able to afford gas chromatography on a regular basis

Baguio, you may want to check if any dentists on Ireland sell a 2nd hand Halimeter, as I know there's a new one on the market, and dentists may be in the process of upgrading (meaning there may be some 2nd hand ones on the cheap...).

The best option of all would be if we could start little research groups in our respective states/countries, and then meet up a few days with the Halimeter etc, and compare how we react to various "products" etc... but I guess we're all to spread out all over the place?

Anyway, all Euro folks should sign up to this initiative so we can move FWD

/Karl

baguio · Post by **baguio** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:57 pm

[quote=yogs] good Idea...I am interested but I am in the US?[/quote]
Its just not practical to include everywhere. But theres no reason why a stateside group cannot get together to do the same thing.
[quote=Larc400]Yeah I've been lobbying for this idea for ages, but the interest has seemed to be non-existent although of course I was asking for people in the same country, which would obviously be difficult to find So... good idea to widen the area to Europe, and Fed-exing between members.[/quote]
Yeah - was your original idea many months ago.

[quote=Larc400] In general it seems to correlate quite well with my own guess regarding the strength of my bb (which means it's rendered useless) [/quote]
I wouldnt say its useless in all cases. There have been many people who *think* they have an improvement following a new treatment that they have convinced themselves will work - have been guilty of this in the past myself.

[quote=Larc400]Do I trust it? Ehum, I'm not sure................... So, to summarise: probably useful for our research but it's a well-known fact that it doesn't measure all the gases causing our problem... it's still the best option, as we will never be able to afford gas chromatography on a regular basis Neutral [/quote]
Yeah,, i'm not convinced its accurate either but we have to start somewhere and it seems to have some relevance for some people. I have had three halimeter tests done and had low readings on all three. It could be that I am one of these people who thinks they have bb - but taking this week as an example, the thinly veiled comments of co-workers referencing bad breath dont indicate this. So it may end up that it has little value for me - but we have to do something. Gas Chromotography I didnt even consider as I am assuming thats just not financially viable.

If this is the case - and we conclude that the halimeter doesnt measure all of the relevant gases - at the very least we should be lobbying clinicians to acknowledge this - rather than them inaccurately telling patients that they dont have bb following a halimeter test.

Anyways - thats (in principal) - two people

We need another 8!
Come on folks - lets help ourselves as best we can!

baguio · Post by **baguio** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:24 pm

2 people so far....sorry but thats just not good enough people. You have to help yourself in this lifetime, and whilst its the long way round, theres definitely no quickfix solution. We've tried 1001 pills n potions.

At least this way, we have an opportunity to find out more - if we set it up right. €150 is not much when you consider that the €30-40 euro every now and again that your spending on pills that are not helping.

Do yourself a favour and post here!

oceanside · Post by **oceanside** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:51 pm

I think you guys' idea is brilliant. I am just trying to think outside of the box with you as how can we use the data to further our cause, and yes the readings doesn't take meassure certain gases so it's not 100% accurate as human sense of smell.

How can we use the readings to futher our cause? simply having 10 individual halitosis readings is great but who do we provide the data to that will manifacture a viable remedy for our specific needs?

i support this project, so if someone can expand it so the effort will further the cause than we may have something worthwhile.

john

baguio · Post by **baguio** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:09 pm

oceanside wrote:How can we use the readings to futher our cause?

Firstly, there is no guarantee that it will (no empty promises here). However, chances are its probably not been done before. Theres an opportunity here. This site brings together people with a definite problem. It would not be that easy for a clinician to carry out this sort of testing - i mean, how would he get people to come in a few times a day for testing. It would be impractical and whatsmore, with the time involved, he/she couldnt afford to do it. Here we are united by this site - we can collaborate.
As time goes on, this forum will gather more an more credibility because the format is right. The results can be published here and a link to them could be displayed promenently within the site (subject to jimi's approval of course). We can thrash out a uniform & systematic approach to testing - deciding when and how often we should test, etc.
It may be that we find nothing. However, it may be that we find a common theme in terms of when we test higher. If we do find some common symptoms - then we need to tell the professionals and that would be the next stage - if it comes to that.

This is not a quick fix - its not a fix at all. Its doing some work to provide others with valuable info - that could lead to an appropriate treatment and unravel the mystery behind our disorder. I have lived under the effects of this disorder for over 14 years now. It has been a great impediment to my own personal and professional development. IF your suffering from the same disorder as I am, there are no quick fixes.
There isnt anyone who visits here and suffers from this disorder who doesnt feel simply powerless & helpless due to the effects of this disorder. Well, the best thing that any of us can do in this situation is empower ourselves - by taking positive action. This is clearly an example of how we can try to help ourselves.

Nothing to lose, EVERYTHING to gain.

Larc400 · Post by **Larc400** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:29 am

Maybe we are actually the only Euro folks here Baguio, which may explain the silence

dravens · Post by **dravens** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:17 pm

I announce my interest in this project to.

hungrygirl · Post by **hungrygirl** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:25 pm

I am euro too and i know its hard to belive but i dont have £150 at the mo.

My business is shit, so much so that have to give up my apartment and rent a room, which is a very sad day for me.

The next 3 months will have to pay the tax man, thousands of pounds, i dont know how im going to do that.

Also, the halimeter doesnt mesure everything, we all know that, the chromatograph would be better idea. Of course i know it would be even more expensive.

By the way baguio, i have sent you a private message, did you get it? Its about meeting up, cos you mentioned that you would be interested. Let me know your thoughts on that please.

If my business picks up, im in for the experiment.

baguio · Post by **baguio** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:32 pm

dravens wrote:I announce my interest in this project to.

Welcome Aboard Dravens. Thats 3* out of 10. Anyone else?

2hungrygirl" wrote:I am euro too and i know its hard to belive but i dont have £150 at the mo.

Its not as bad as that (€150 = £100) but i understand your current circumstances are not working for you. Hopefully, things will pick up for you - keep positive.

hungrygirl wrote:Also, the halimeter doesnt mesure everything, we all know that, the chromatograph would be better idea. Of course i know it would be even more expensive.

Yes thats right. I am working on the assumption that chomotography is out of the question. Just for kicks, anyone have a ballpark figure?

hungrygirl wrote:By the way baguio, i have sent you a private message, did you get it? Its about meeting up, cos you mentioned that you would be interested..

oops, missed that sorry.

hungrygirl · Post by **hungrygirl** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:40 pm

have you guys seen this?
http://www.abilit-medical-and-environme ... ct_01.html

baguio · Post by **baguio** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:43 pm

hungrygirl wrote:have you guys seen this?
http://www.abilit-medical-and-environme ... ct_01.html

I've emailed them requesting a price - just for kicks. But its bound to be outrageous.

jc · Post by jc » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:27 am

How much would a gas chromatography cost? I don`t know if we have that in my country but I`m willing to send you guys my money if it could detect the unknown culprit that`s causing our bb. I`m pretty desperate so I have a crazy suggestion, what if we hire a person to smell our breath. This may sound crazy but I`m really, really desperate. I suggest this coz my breath had been tested on a halimeter lots of times & I always pass. Having a normal person smell our breath is better than relying on the halimeter, except if the manufacturers make a better model. One that could really detect the different gases coming from our mouths & noses.

Mico · Post by **Mico** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:59 am

Im from Europe as well. As far as I know, people with VSC can smell themselves, if not directly then indirectly(lick test, tongue scrape test...)...so a halimeter cant help that much coz it shows just VSC, atleast most of them.

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