Bad Breath Halitosis Forum

Hi all,
First I want to say that I just discovered this site in the last week or so, just joined, and I am so grateful for having found it. This is my first post. As other members on here, I’m living my so-called life, in torment because of bb. It has drained the life inside of me, and I don’t believe that I’ll ever see the day when I feel whole again. I’m weeping as I write this…only you can understand the pain this causes. This seems to be the most debilitating “handicap” one can be cursed with, and what’s even worse, is that there is no understanding or sympathy or even acknowledgement that this is a real problem with debilitating consequences.

I beg you guys to keep reading my story, as it is a little different from others on here, in terms of causes of bb.

For me it started 9 years ago. I contracted hepatitis B (I’m sure you know what it is, but just in case..it is a virus that attacks the liver, most people will get rid of the virus on their own), but my body was not able to clear it, and I became a chronic carrier, meaning I still have it and it is not possible to be cured. Chances are remote of ever being Hep B free. My bb started exactly the week I contracted hep B. I started having pain right were the liver is located, along with a dry mouth and bb. I curse the day I got this infection, but there is no going back to that day in my life now. I maintain a healthy life style, I eat right, excercise and if you saw me, you'd never guess what i go through internally.

The medical community, and the research I’ve done does not show a link between the two, however this is what happened to me, and I’m sure you understand how impossible it is to convince the doctor that even though my liver tests come out ok(meaning there is little to no inflammation), I experience pain in the liver area, and have bb, along with coated tongue. The bb has gotten worse at times, and better at other times, but it never ever goes away completely.

I’m not gonna go into detail about the sadness, pain, anxiety and depression this has caused me, as I know you understand exactly what each of us has experienced. The hepatitis itself seems like nothing compared to the torment bb gives me. If I could get rid of bb, I wouldn’t worry so much about the hep b, even if it killed me in a few years. God, if I could live even 5 years of my life without the consciousness of bb, I would gladly give up the rest of my life. I know the bb is related to the inflammation in the liver, but I just don’t’ know what to do about it. My logic tells me that as long as I have hep b, and the liver is inflamed, I will never be able to get rid of my bb.

I tried a candida diet a while ago, which a holistic doctor suggested me, while trying to convince me that the hep b/liver have nothing to do with the “bad taste in the mouth”. The anticandida diet seemed to help a little, but never got rid of it completely.. God, I am in such pain and so weak…I never had the courage to talk to the GI doctor I see for hep B, about the BB problem directly until today. I’ve always mentioned the pain I experience all the time, and I’ve said things like “bad taste” in the mouth, and dry tongue, but until today, I didn’t have the courage to mention the term “bb”. I started crying in his office..and although he seemed to be trying to help, I don’t have a lot of hope, as he immediately ruled out the liver as the cause. He ordered a stool test of H.plyroi, and after getting the results of that will do a celiac disease test, but I am not hopeful at all.
I have to mention that I’m pretty sure I’m lactose intoleant (or became in the years after contracting hep b) so I avoid milk, but have still eaten other dairy products. Doc said you’ll try a completely dairy free diet if the H. plyori test comes back negative.

The reason I know my bb is related to the hep b/liver inflammation is that when my virus dna was elevated last year, my bb become worse. I am taking a pill to keep the virus under control now, and though tests show that it is almost undetected, the liver damage has been done and I know that’s what causing the bb and coated tongue.

I tried a liver flush once, I did feel a little better, but the bb never went away completely.

I have suffered for 9 years, I have a job where I interact with a lot of people(consulting) , and have to constantly make a good impression on people I work with, and you can imagine how draining that is..i am soo tired of everything. I turn down offers from my friends to go out because I’m worried of my bb, I feel like curling up and dying when morning comes, and I have to go to work or even just be around people..

Please, I beg you, if you have any suggestions on how to cure or treat bb that is caused by an inflamed liver, please share it with me, I feel I can rely on your advice more than my doc’s advice, since he doesn’t get it and is simply trained to only believe that since it is not proven that liver inflammation caused by hep b can cause bb, that it cannot be the source.

Sorry for the long post….i have come to a point where I come home from work , curl in bed and cry , wishing I was dead..(I know how weak that is) but this is what bb has reduced me to. I can’t even concentrate at work, cause all I think about is my bb, and I’ve become obsessed reading the posts in this site, where I feel like is the only place and people who really get it..i would be so grateful for any suggestions any of you might have for me. I understand exaclty what each one is going though, and a little support would really help me, as I get into a very dark place, with nothing but dark thoughts of ending life..because i see no escape from this torture.

My dear Anna..
Welcome dear!! I am sorry I dont have any instant ideas to cure you...I just want to tell you that I am also on the same boat.
It is not BB which is bothering us...It is the social isolation which is killing us....
Some times I think I should wear a mask and should interact with people normally. ppl will be good to us if we dont smell bad. So why dont everyone in this forum start wearing masks when they speak to ppl just like physically handicapped ppl wear crutches.

I am studying in one of the Americas top university in a PhD program. I have a near perfect GPA. I was a university gold medalist in my under graduation. I had tons of achievements...but all in wain ...I cannot speak to ppl bcoz of my BB.

Everyone treats me as an arrogant nerd...hahaha...indeed I am not ...they also knew that I have very bad BB...but still think that I am very unkind to ppl as I dont speak to them at all. My adviser literally shuts his mouth and nose completely when he speaks to me..

All of us have a tragic story.... sad but true....
I shall not give up as it is not a Champion's habit...
I will one day live without Bad breath......

BE POSITIVE AND DONT GIVE UP.......
WE HAVE BB
but we deserve a cure
only we can find it for ourselves...
Dear Anna do not give up....

John
The Bad Breath King

Hi Anna,
First of all welcome. You are among friends I'm sure you have a few avenues to explore so don't give up.
Can I just ask, how were you diagnosed? Did they just go straight to a Hep B blood test? What were your initial symptoms?
Also, for the sake of others... does the virus always show up in a blood test or does it sometimes stay under the radar? This may be important for diagnosing others who may be unaware they carry Hep B.
You raise interesting points though. I thought that it was quite well known that liver damage causes body odours (and also BB). If your liver is not working properly, it will be unable to metabolize certain odorous compounds which it would normally cope with, for example trimethylamine. This is from the wikipedia page in TMAU:
"Although FMO3 mutations account for most known cases of trimethylaminuria, some cases are caused by other factors. A fish-like body odor could result from an excess of certain proteins in the diet or from an increase in bacteria in the digestive system. A few cases of the disorder have been identified in adults with liver damage caused by hepatitis"
I'm sure the same goes for all kinds of odours, like garlic or sulfurous by-products, which some people seem to deal with much better than others.
Maybe get a phenotype test for TMAU next time you know your virus levels are high. Also, try to get involved with the Mebo research breath test study (see other thread). It would be very interesting to see what compounds you have in your breath, especially when your virus levels are up.
In terms of treatments for your liver, there is quite a lot of research to say that Milk Thistle has good protective and reparative benefits for the liver. I assume that you don't drink alcohol or take drugs as this would be counter-productive for you. Good diet would be important too. Lots of fresh veg for the antioxidants. Vitamin E supplementation (3000IU/day) has apparently shown benefits for oxidative stress, but this is above the usual dose.
Hope this helps. Stay strong

Agree with the replies so far. Anna, you said you started getting dry mouth at the same time your BB started. Has any doctor tried to address this or tried to explain why? It may simply be because the health problems you now have are making your mouth dry and causing BB.

How did you get the hepatitis B? Could you have contracted something else at the same time? such as parasites or helicobacter, etc? Your doctor seems convinced your BB is not caused directly by your liver, but it may well be involved indirectly, such as the dry mouth. Try to give your doctor a chance to find a connection. He seems to be working through it logically.

You poor girl Anna!!! You are in my thoughts and best wishes girl!!

Here's a song for you girl!! Hang in there!

http://youtu.be/FXL65Nd_O1o

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the support guys. Just reading your responses made me feel better. To answer some of your questions:

-I contracted it through my partner...i didn't know he had it, but found out immediately after. I started having theses symptoms within that week and got tested. I'm not going into any more detail about it, as it is a very painful part of my life..its basically when my life got destroyed, and it hurts to talk about it and bring back those memories..

@potty_mouth- if you get tested, the blood tests will show if you have it or not, regarless of the virus dna levels..
Thanks for the info on TMAU..i think i will look more into that.And i def would get involved in the Mebo research..im in the NH area. I have read a bit on Milk Thistle, but have yet to try it. And i do maintain a healthy lifestyle. Thanks again so much for your recommendations.

@ halitosisux-i am going to get tested for the helicobacter, but i really doubt that is is for me.Thank you for the encouragement my friend.

@Susie- You are so sweet , thank you dear for the song

I can't say that i have tried many things, but i have read a lot of different suggestions on this site--i'm getting the courage to start trying them..before reading this, i had hit rock bottom, that point where you just give up, becasue you are just exhausted from what you go through. Oh, why is life so cruel sometimes!

Dear Anna,

Sooner or later, we all will find the cure. Don't lose hope.

As you said the breath gets worse when you are infected with hepatisis, it is possible that low immunity is causing the hepatisis virus to attack. As immunity goes down, all micro-organisms attack our body, including bacteria in the mouth. Do you have any other health problems like frequent cough and cold, post-nasal drip etc?

@Anna,
i just read ure post, so heres my reply..
there is a number of things u can do, the worst thing u can do is give up.I am sure there have been people before u, who just gave up, one way or anoter, and with their "drop of the ball" they didn't just screw themselfs, but also the rest of the community that is suffering with this condition. People in general not just doctors dont really take this condition seriously becasue they consider it cosmetical, and belive that a good oral higiene will solve any bb problem. Honestly we can not blaim them. If I wasnt affected by this condition I wouldn't belive it myself.
Whis means We as a community must make people aware of ourselfs, otherwise this little "problem" wil be swept under the rug every dacade. Suferers think if they "take their life" they solved the problem, when really they just cowardly dissapear and doctors, and oher people just think that was just another mental patient... and the rest of us stay with this condition. Not all can just "take their" life... some people have families, children to think about.... and if a person "solves" problems in this manner, than he most likely solves all problems like that,...
So if we all stand together united and work on a solution, demand a solution we can achive something, if not in our lifetime, I for one hope to se the cure before I go from old age. People who just give up, are people who just give up in all areas in their lives. This is "just" another obsticle in ure way, and its ure job (mission if u will) to find the solution, hot to go across the wall. around it? under it, thru it?... many options but u can not just wait for someone to tell u how to beat this obsticle, without them even not knowing u are facing this problem. Yes u asked one doctor, he didnt know, maybe didnt even take u seriously? I dont know, but there is milions of doctors, and why stop at doctors? farmacists, biological engineers..etch... someone will know the answer... just by waiting for someone to find the soulution by cuincidance, well If u have time, good luck because I sure dont.

I have had BB for omg about 14years now... tried many things, some helped some didnt, but is alot better than it was few years back. Well that is not accurate, It can be better when I try "harder"... and my BB can be smelled acros the room in "bad days". but in good days I can have people sit next to me "normaly".. I had few girlfriends which is another indicator I can make it "work"... and i do undersand ure situation ure in right now, i was in similar, but s*****e is not the way to go, there are worse things in life, trust me.

OK I didnt want to sound like a wiseguy but in life we dont allways get what we want;)
few tips:
avoid dairy
coffe
sugar
drinks with bubles
stress

get as much as possible:
fruit+vegetable (vit C, fiber)
water
exercise
mouthwash without alchohol

get some goals in life"!-they will help u see things clearer. Socialize! some people dont care about ure bb, trust me!
experiment. maybe u find something that might work for u, or for someone else.

good luck
Snow (aka = Ice)

Hello Anna

I haven't posted in a while but I feel compelled to respond to try and help.

Please answer these basic questions (even if they seem trivial)

Are you currently on any medication? If yes, what?
Have you ever taken omeprazole for reflux symptoms?
Have you taken antibiotics since your original diagnosis? If yes, what?
Do you have ANY history of gum disease?
What, if any, products or techniques have you used that have helped the BB?
Do you have PND or sinus symptoms?
Are you able to scrape the white stuff off your tongue?

Thanks Anna.

These questions may help point you in the right direction. In matters of halitosis, it seems very few can find success with a totally "holistic" approach. You will most likely need prescription medications and you are doing the right thing by seeing doctors and having them rule out abnormalities. Even if these tests come back negative, at least you cross them off and move on, focusing on more likely culprits. Just so you know, people on another board have cured halitosis with triple antibiotic therapy for H.Pylori...

In the meantime, I recommend smart mouth mouthwash and a Neti pot (even if you don't have sinus issues). My research tells me that often times a bacterial/fungal overgrowth is not just on your tongue but down your throat and up into the nasopharynx as well. Sometimes these overgrowths can occur in your stomach (h.pylori) and even in you small intestines.

Hi,Everyone BAD BREATH is a serious problem in human life.We should take proper treatment to recover this problem .I can suggest some prescriptions as you can take fresh air in the morning and you can also some event.If this problem in severe form than you can go to a renowned doctor to take proper treatment.

Hi guys,
Sorry for the late reply.

@notanymore:
-yes, i am currently on medication to keep the virus in control-viread (antiviral drug).
-no, i have not taken omeprazole for reflux symptoms
- i took antibiotics once, for a different problem, for two weeks. i can't remember what kind it was. i remember it helped with bb, at certain times during the day, not all day though.
-my gums have been pretty sensitive, but i floss regularly, and they seem to be better now. i use a toothpaste with fluoride, would that worsen the bb?
-as far as what i've tried so far: i tried therabreath, i tried the probiotic treatment (forget what was it called) from katz a while back., did a anticandida diet for a few months, which helped a little, but did not eradicate the problem entirely. I started taking probiotics now, vitamin B2, and vitamin C chewables.On the second day, i felt great- no pnd, no bb, no bad taste in mouth. it came back though. Especially when it gets cold out, i feel worse.
-yes, i do have pnd, i feel it there bothering me all the time. It is strange, that when i have tried diets, or just when i avoid certain foods like: fried, or sweet, or buttery, pnd does not bother me as much. I don't know if there is a connection.
I can scrape the tounge to a certain degree. In the morning its worse.

@snow
I agree with what you wrote, and yes, that is the way one should be thinking. This has been super hard on me bc I'm one of those people that are not satisfied if things are not perfect, so you can imagine my approach of ..."all or nothing at all", and since with this condition you can't have it all, i become weak and feel as if nothing is worth anything. This is when i'm feeling down. During moments when i'm thinking clearly, I want to fight for myself and for others going through this.
thanks for the suggestions-
i definitely avoid all those things for the most part.
I exercise, and that makes a difference at least in the way i feel. I know what you mean about making it work..when i try harder , i have better results...meaning if i eat better, drink a lot of water, feel stress free. it's generally harder than it seems and it is an effort, ..without 100% results.
I'm waiting for my test results for the h.pylori, after that will test for celiac disease, so we'll see. I have to keep fighting, i know And i will!! Thank you
@ AugustSony: ..fresh air ..as nice as it is, it is not a cure , but thank you

Guys, i read a little about ozone therapy...i'm really thinking about it, it is worht a try for me, i read tha in some cases it healed people from hep B. Don't know how true those claims are, but either way, ozone therapy seemed to be very beneficial in general. maybe it will do sth about the bb as well! I'm looking for a trained professional in my area that does this.
What do you guys think?

Hi Anna,
I understand that you are desperate but please think again before you try ozone therapy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_therapy
Ozone's safety let alone its effectiveness has never been proven in a recognized peer-reviewed scientific publication. Its ability to generate radical oxygen species is considered very dangerous. The only evidence in favour of its use as a therapy seems to be in unsubstantiated testimonials or the same few "researchers" (V. Bocci and chums in particular) publishing again and again in the same pseudo-scientific "journals". The abstracts of these publications never contain any reference to results of trials but rather just refer to more unsubsantiated evidence.
But testimonials of benefits (fabricated, mis-interpreted or otherwise) are always more compelling than the boring science (or lack thereof). By way of balance here's some circumstancial evidence they won't tell you:
http://whatstheharm.net/ozonetherapy.html
If they take your money to infuse your blood with ozone then they should be top of Jimi's mafia list IMHO.
Stay safe Anna,
PM

Anna, sensitive gums = probably your cure. remember, gingivitis/periodontal disease is not painful. If i were you I'd just go straight to a dentist or even better a periodontist and explain your BB. Sounds like you may need a deep cleaning/root planing and scaling done.

Hi Anna,
I'm a 50 y old who has lived with horrible breath since the age of 11. So I understand how ou feel. However this has not prevented me from getting married, having kids, and a very successful career. A lot of depression, but I rarely show it and plow through.That said, it does not mean that I have not been constantly looking for a way to resolve the problem. I was trained as a scientist in medicine and just like to solve problems. I have post nasal drip, coated tongue and for the past 3y acid reflux. But like you I have come to the conclusion tha and there t the problem may be my liver, I bThe had my gall bladder removed when I was 30 something. The best thing found so far is milk thistle, as someone mentioned already. I have brought my dose up to 12 grams daily with significant improvement. This is a dose given in clinical trials with no side effect detected, in fact the human equivalent of 200 grams a dat was given to mice for 2 years with decreased liver tumors. Good luck

Hi Ana, these are all great suggestions to help you here on these posts. I totally agree on the milk thistle; I've taking it yor years. I recommend you take "ultrathistle". Apparently it is supposed to be the "world most highest-potency milk thistle formula, and up to 10x the absorption, and up to 20x the effectiveness". I've been taking this for over six months now and so far love it.
If anyone is also taking this, I'd like to hear your experiences with it.