Bad Breath Halitosis Forum

I'll start by saying that I have a lot to say but I'll try to be as succint as possible. So, if anyone wants further details, just ask me and I'll try to answer.

- First of all, what type of bad breath did I have?
I came to realize that, unfortunately, I had all types. It was coming from my mouth, throat and gut.

- When did I notice I had bad breath?
Started to notice when I was 14/15 (I'm 28 now) but always looked at it as an oral issue and tried not to think much about it, because I didn't have the means to keep going to the dentist. So I was waiting to start making money and fix the issue. Silly me.

- When did I notice I had severe bad breath, aka the type that fills up a room and can even be smelled through your nose?
When I was 21. So, it's possible that I have been dealing with this severe bad breath since I was way younger, but only started to realize it was way worse than I thought when I managed to fix all my oral issues by going multiple times to the dentist and the bad breath persisted. For this reason, I started to wonder where it was coming from and that's when I also began to notice the extremelly putrid smell that was coming out of my body. It smelled like a literal sewage. Both my mouth and nose. I became even more insecure and started paying attention to people's reactions. And only God knows how heartbreaking it is to see people grasping for air because of how you smell

- When did I actively started taking measures about the issue?
Also when I was 21 and started working after finishing university.

I can say that this issue was already affecting my life pretty bad, but when I realized that people could smell it when I breathed next to them I hit rock bottom. Became really really depressed and started developing anxiety. Because one thing is not speaking so people don't smell the odor that comes from your mouth. Other thing is not breathing. It's just impossible. So, to avoid social interaction, I developed this resting b*tch face at work to scare people away. And that hurt, because I'm actually pretty zen and hated the idea of looking angry all the time. But I did what was necessary to avoid speaking and breathing next to people. I became really anti-social and never managed to make friends to this day.

I can say that I tried pretty much all (or, at least, 95%) the solutions I managed to find on the internet. I can also say that the expenses managed to reach the 4 digits land. I even did a surgery! Keep in mind that I'm far from rich, so the little money that I used to have left after paying bills, buying food and etc, was all used to find a cure. I didn't even have time to think about savings. I was broke. But giving up was not a plan.

So what exactly helped me be BB free?

1st: I focused on the gut. Long story short, stopped eating meat and pretty much anything animal related in the first year. I noticed an amazing improvement in like a week! The best so far! My hopes were so high when that happened.
Let's say my bad breath was level 100 and the bad breath a 'normal' person has (for instance, in the morning) is level 3 to 5. When I stopped eating meat, it came down to level 30-35. Say what you want, but that was one hell of an improvement, since the max other solutions did for me was reduce it from a 100 to 95.
I got a little bit sad when I noticed it wouldn't go lower than 30 but felt encouraged to continue, because I was definitely on the right path. 30 is still pretty high, compared to a 'normal' human with 3-5, but much better than what I had before. Most importantly, I was no longer filling up rooms. I still had mouth and nose bad breath though. But at least I would stop hearing the question "Did you fart?" whenever someone would come into my room.
I should also mention that it fixed my chronic constipation. And that's when I realized that my breath definitely smelled like poop. Did some research, and found out that constipation can cause bad breath in some people, and I was definitely one of the unlucky ones. I've been suffering from constipation since I was a literal infant.

But yeah, I went plant based in 2018. After a year I started eating eggs and it didn't worsen my breath. Two years later I tried to eat a little bit of fish and it didn't seem to affect me either. One thing I never tried again and don't plan on trying is definitely red meat and pork. I know those are the worst things I can put in my body and will definitely make me smell like sh*t.

2nd: Started taking digestive enzymes and betaine HCl. I have tried this before with no success, but now that I had fixed most of my gut issues with the whole plant based thing, I had a different result.
Before I started taking these supplements, I used to be able to smell what was inside of my stomach/intestines when I burped. But then it stopped.
I must say that my bad breath level didn't reduce that much (probably went from 30 to 25), but I knew that taking those pills were the right thing to do because it helped me with my digestion.

3rd: I started focusing on my throat/mouth again after trying the bleach suggestion that I saw here in this forum (I mean, what could I do? I was desperate). I noticed that it worked but had to stop because it was making my teeth look really yellow. I ran to the dentist to do a teeth cleaning but was happy I've tried this method, otherwise I wouldn't realize that yes, there were some issues in my mouth as well, but not related to tooth decay at all. I guess I was just very unlucky and produced more stinky bacteria than the average human.
So yeah, I decided to try to do nasal rinses again after a long time and gave in and bought one of those mouthwashes they sell for bad breath.

So this was my routine:
1) Nasal rinse 2x a day (morning and before bed) with my homemade saline solution (500ml of water, salt, baking soda)
2) Diluted hydrogen peroxide as my first mouthwash before brushing my teeth, making sure I gargled as well. Would do it around 4 times before I moved to brushing my teeth
3) Brushed my teeth with a toothpaste from this brand called Halita
4) Flossed
5) Used the mouthwash from the same brand as the toothpaste. Diluted a little bit just to gargle, then used the concentrated mouthwash normally

And that's when I found out that that was all that was missing. I finally managed to tackle all the issues that have been haunting me for over a decade.

I noticed improvement with this oral routine literally the next day. But didn't celebrate because I've been fooled like this too many times and I know a lot of people here can relate. I was praying it wasn't a false alarm.

Almost 2 months later, I'm happy to say that I'm still doing pretty fine. I actually can't believe I'm BB free. I don't even know how to behave yet. I used to be so scared I would live my whole life like this.

For this reason, I promised myself I would let people here know what helped me. You guys have no idea how discouraged I always felt when I rarely found a success story. Throughout my whole life, I think I just read 3 or 4. That's very little. To make myself feel better, I would make myself believe that it was because people were so happy they were healed and could finally start living their lives that they forgot about all these forums.
Can we blame them?

Anyway, to summarize how I'm currently doing:
1. I'm still 95% plant based. Eat eggs almost daily and eat fish rarely;
2. Take supplements to suport my bad digestion (TMI, but I poop everyday. Apparently that's very important);
3. Do nasal rinses and use special oral care.

What I learned about this?

Sometimes we need to try several methods at the same time. I tried nasal rinses and special mouthwashes many times before and they never worked. I would even roll my eyes whenever someone would recommend a mouthwash or something like that because, in my head, their issue was definitely not as accute as mine.

This oral routine only worked for me because I already had my digestive issues fixed.

All this time I've been focusing on one part of my body at a time, when I should've been focusing on all of them. Lesson learned.

I think that's all I have to say for now.

Feel free to ask me any question.

Good luck, guys!

Omg this is so greatt i am so happy for you , did you have stomach issue as well like reflux or something and you mentioned a surgery , what type of surgery was that? I also when i drink probiotic can smell my breath on whatever i eat but i didn’t realize what the real reason was until i saw what you write

Emanuela hoxha wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:42 am Omg this is so greatt i am so happy for you , did you have stomach issue as well like reflux or something and you mentioned a surgery , what type of surgery was that? I also when i drink probiotic can smell my breath on whatever i eat but i didn’t realize what the real reason was until i saw what you write

I used to have awful stomach pain and all of that. I also used to be gassy all the time, constantly burping, my tummy always felt like a drum, you know what I mean? Because there was so much air inside.
Whenever I ate, it was like the food would get stuck at the upper part of my stomach and I would look pregnant by the end of the day. Sometimes when I burped, the food would come up.

I did several endoscopies (I think 4, but with different doctors) and they would always recommend pills like omeprazole and etc. However, those pills did nothing for me and sometimes they would even make my situation worse.
At one point I did that triple antibiotic treatment that kills helicobacter pylori (because apparently I had it) and that was the first time my bad breath disappeared for good. But, just like it happened to others, once I stoped the treatment the bad breath came back.

After doing more research, I started to wonder if I didn't have low levels of stomach acid and that's why I wasn't able to digest my food, because we need acids to break down what we eat, and everyone knows that read meat and pork take the longest to disappear from our stomach. Also, it would make sense why the pills that were prescribed by the doctors would sometimes worsen my problem, because those pills reduce the stomach acid!

I put 2 and 2 together, and came to the conclusion that the sewage/poop odor I would feel was the smell of food putrifying inside of my body, because 1) I didn't have enough acid to break it down, 2) it would get stuck there for looooong periods of time, 3) I wasn't pooping either (so you're aware, and this isn't an exaggeration, I would only poop 3 or 4 times A MONTH). So I had tons and tons of rotten food inside of me that couldn't be expelled.
That smell would come out of my nose, whenever I opened my mouth, whenever I burped. Like, it was there 24/7 because I kept eating and eating, without knowing what was happening inside. It smelled really rotten.

So changing my diet and pairing it with betaine HCl and digestive enzymes was definitely the best decision ever!

I should mention that I went to one of those breath clinics when I was 22 (newsflash, they didn't fix my issue at the time, and now I wonder if it wasn't my fault) and I remember them doing one of those tests they do to test alergies or whatever, and apparently I was allergic to a lottttttttttttttttt of stuff (including dairy, pork and other things). It was a long list of food sensitivities. Since a diet change wasn't what I wanted to hear at the time, I ignored everything and considered them scammers Which they were a little, because the doctor had the nerve to tell me he didn't smell anything (after I supposedly followed all his advice. I didn't), when I knew that whole room smelled like poop. But yeah, they told me at the time to stop eating certain type of meat, use a mouthwash for bad breath called Ultradex, and take these antibiotics.

All of this to say they were kinda right with the meat part and maybe the mouthwash. I only realized that later. But yeah, we live and we learn.

About my surgery - It was around the time I was going to several ENT doctors. I lost count of how many doctors I've seen. During this time, I was trying to tackle the issue with my nose, throat and all of that, mostly because of my nose breath.
Since I would get tonsil stones from time to time, I decided to have surgery because, at the time, I was positive it would solve my issue. So I paid for tonsil removal surgery and fell into a huuuge depression when I found out it didn't fix anything. It was a false alarm By the way, I did that surgery in 2017, when I was 24, and I think that was the year I tried less internet solutions because I was so unmotivated.

If you'd like to know what I've tried throughout the years, or what I avoid eating or don't eat at all nowadays, I'll gladly help you.

Congratulations OP.

Does anyone have room filling oral and nasal BB like OP, but opposite effects from food?

A vegetarian diet gives me more reactions and constipation.

Seafood and maybe also red meat gives me slightly less reactions and very smooth bowel movements.

went without meat for two years and it didn't do sh!t for me.

But anyway, you didn't say what digestive enzymes did you take besides betaine HCL?

Also, does betaine HCL give you heart burn or any other subtle burning sensation?

KL123 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:01 pm went without meat for two years and it didn't do sh!t for me.

But anyway, you didn't say what digestive enzymes did you take besides betaine HCL?

Also, does betaine HCL give you heart burn or any other subtle burning sensation?

Both my digestive enzymes and Betaine HCL are from a brand called Solgar. I buy them in a supplements store near where I live.

And no, Betaine doesn't cause me any heartburn. Before starting taking it regularly, I did some tests to see how much Betaine my stomach could handle and also to see if I really had low stomach acid. I increased the amount of pills day by day, until I reached 8 pills all at once and nothing happened.

I obviously don't take 8 betaine pills before each meal since I don't think that is necessary and that was just a test. I usually take 2.

Hey congratulations on fixing this issue I know you are so relieved!
Did you also cut sugar & dairy out or your diet or was it just meat!

nd_gillis wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:58 pm Hey congratulations on fixing this issue I know you are so relieved!
Did you also cut sugar & dairy out or your diet or was it just meat!

Dairy is forbidden for me but I've found vegan substitutes, so I don't miss it.
I've tried to see if dairy would really make a difference and I can assure that it does. My breath changes immediately, especially the nose breath, for some reason.

So not only it does something to my gut, it also worsens my post nasal drip, which I think that's why my nose breath would get worse?

Regarding the sugar - I don't think I've deliberately cut it, but since my diet did a 180 and I went from eating fast food, candy, fried food, donuts regurlarly, to a relatively healthier lifestyle, I guess I consume less sugar now. I think the 2 things I deliberately stopped consuming are sodas and candy.

can you tell me what your favourite meal to make on this lifestyle change? a meal that you feel you can eat as much as you want of without getting bad breath again.
also, can you eat oil and salt?
most of the reasons why people here can't follow through with the cures is because the diets are so restrictive and leaves people feeling constant hunger. how do you deal stop your body from hunger? what foods can you eat in excess and not have any problems with, could you list them? can you eat aged european cheese?

Congratulations and I also have wanted to try a vegetarian diet (I like fish and eggs) for quite some time, but have always feared that I fail. I guess I'm going to gradually modify my diet. I have to do something. My biggest concern is how do I get enough protein in a day. Mostly from fish and eggs? Or also beans and legumes? Nuts? Do you eat beans yourself?

form21 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:15 pm can you tell me what your favourite meal to make on this lifestyle change? a meal that you feel you can eat as much as you want of without getting bad breath again.
also, can you eat oil and salt?
most of the reasons why people here can't follow through with the cures is because the diets are so restrictive and leaves people feeling constant hunger. how do you deal stop your body from hunger? what foods can you eat in excess and not have any problems with, could you list them? can you eat aged european cheese?

I don't think I've ever felt hungry after eating. I still eat normally. I understand the feeling of feeling restricted (I too initially had those thoughts), but it was because I couldn't go to a fast food restaurant and eat whatever I wanted. If we don't think about fast food and stuff like that, there are plenty of different meals we can have. When you focus on what you cannot eat, you realize that you still have a lot of options outside of that.

I personally focus on the restrictions. I can say that I don't eat any type of meat (red, chicken, pork), dairy and don't drink sodas. I avoid chips (not saying that I don't eat from time to time), fried food (again, not saying that I don't eat from time to time, but in very small amounts) and reduced my consumption of onions and garlic. I've noticed that peanut butter does something to my breath as well, so I avoid eating it.

I never was the type to use that much vegetable oil anyway. But if we focus on olive oil, I use it regularly. Still use the regular amount of salt. Not too salty, not too bland. Just normal. I don't think I've reduced it.

I don't eat cheese and I can tell you that it makes a tremendous difference.

I can say that I eat rice frequently without any issue. When I cook spaghetti I use the whole wheat ones. However, I try no to eat spaghetti frequently because it has gluten and gluten makes me feel bloated and constipated. It doesn't give me bad breath directly but I know that if I don't go to the bathroom for too long, I'll start probably noticing some changes in my breath. If you don't suffer from constipation or don't have any gluten sensitivity, I don't think pasta will cause you any harm. I eat black beans quite often (not everyday), lots of vegetables (frozen ones), eggs, sweet potato, rice noodles. Anything rice related I can eat like crazy. Rice does nothing to me.
Even though is rare (and it's because I'm lazy), I eat fish and when I do nothing seems to happen either. However, I focus on white fish instead of blue ones (you can google white fish vs blue fish to see the difference).

The trickier parts are always the snacks, because I don't seem to have issues with the meals. Sometimes you just want to bite something and with my gluten sensitivity and all of that, I can't be eating cookies all the time. It's not that there is not snack options. It's the fact that it's more expensive to snack when on this diet. Fruit is a cheap snack. But if you want to eat something different, you'll be 'forced' to buy certain types of cookies, protein bars, cereal bars and other stuff like that that don't upset your stomach. But this is due to all the sensitivities I have. Maybe you have it better and can eat gluten.

Since I know how hard it is to change a diet, if I were you, I'd start by simply cutting all the meat and dairy at first. Check the results and then, if it works for you, maybe you'll feel more motivated to continue and do a 180 like I did.

Cres wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:05 pm Congratulations and I also have wanted to try a vegetarian diet (I like fish and eggs) for quite some time, but have always feared that I fail. I guess I'm going to gradually modify my diet. I have to do something. My biggest concern is how do I get enough protein in a day. Mostly from fish and eggs? Or also beans and legumes? Nuts? Do you eat beans yourself?

At first I didn't think much about the protein and it was a rookie mistake. I had no knowledge about healthy eating, what our body needs and stuff like that.

But now that I'm more aware, I can say that most of my protein comes from beans, eggs, soy milk and the vegetables that usually have more protein than the others (e.g. brussels sprouts and broccoli). When I do eat bread, I also tend to eat bread with lots of grains. If you like oats, they have lots of protein as well. I used to eat lots of nuts but when I noticed that peanut butter did something to my breath, I no longer eat nuts like crazy. From time to time I eat pistachios though, and don't think I've ever noticed any change.

There was a time where I would also drink protein shakes (vegan ones) but I no longer do it. The only supplement of a similar nature that I take is collagen and I think it is considered protein? Please keep in mind that I'm not an expert. But yeah, I don't take it because it necessarily helps my bad breath or to increase my protein intake. I take it more for my hair and skin and also know that it can help those who have a leaky gut.

It may depend on the types of bacteria you have in GI tract. For instance, if there’s a SIBO with overgrowth of hydrogen sulfide producing bacteria, then meat, fish, eggs, legumes (food with high sulfur content) would worsen the condition. If there’s a SIBO with an overgrowth of methane producing archae or hydrogen producing bacteria or SIFO, carbohydrates worsen symptoms. Antibiotics may offer (or not) temporary help, but 1) if there’s a cause of SIBO, such as dysfunctional cecal valve, adhesions, bile flow problems, etc, then constant monitoring & retreatment are needed - in which case herbal antimicrobials ae better due to less likelihood of resistance; 2) if the bacteria form biofilms, then biofilm disruptors needed to be taken in advance & during antibiotics/antimicrobial treatment.

winter wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:08 pm Congratulations OP.

Does anyone have room filling oral and nasal BB like OP, but opposite effects from food?

A vegetarian diet gives me more reactions and constipation.

Seafood and maybe also red meat gives me slightly less reactions and very smooth bowel movements.

Hi Rolisa, I’m so happy for you to find a solution that works! Thank you for sharing your thoughts & experience.
What kinds of food sensitivities/allergies do you have (meat, dairy, gluten)? How did you test for them? Do you have any sensitivities/allergies to sugar & sweets?

When you did drink protein shakes, did you tolerate them well in terms of bb?

Also, you seem to tolerate well brussel sprouts, broccoli, cauliflower, soy without sideffects of bb, do you?
I’m asking because I relate to what you talked about bb, meat and low acidity; however, those plant-based diets with high soy, legumes, brussel sprouts, broccoli, cauliflower all worsen my bb So, i was thinking about the ways I can get protein with minimal bb, and so far only almonds don’t worsen my bb.

Rolisa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:21 pm

Cres wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:05 pm Congratulations and I also have wanted to try a vegetarian diet (I like fish and eggs) for quite some time, but have always feared that I fail. I guess I'm going to gradually modify my diet. I have to do something. My biggest concern is how do I get enough protein in a day. Mostly from fish and eggs? Or also beans and legumes? Nuts? Do you eat beans yourself?

At first I didn't think much about the protein and it was a rookie mistake. I had no knowledge about healthy eating, what our body needs and stuff like that.

But now that I'm more aware, I can say that most of my protein comes from beans, eggs, soy milk and the vegetables that usually have more protein than the others (e.g. brussels sprouts and broccoli). When I do eat bread, I also tend to eat bread with lots of grains. If you like oats, they have lots of protein as well. I used to eat lots of nuts but when I noticed that peanut butter did something to my breath, I no longer eat nuts like crazy. From time to time I eat pistachios though, and don't think I've ever noticed any change.

There was a time where I would also drink protein shakes (vegan ones) but I no longer do it. The only supplement of a similar nature that I take is collagen and I think it is considered protein? Please keep in mind that I'm not an expert. But yeah, I don't take it because it necessarily helps my bad breath or to increase my protein intake. I take it more for my hair and skin and also know that it can help those who have a leaky gut.

Also, forgot to ask you: do you have (or suspect that you have) leaky gut syndrome?
Thank you in advance! Understanding your experience really helps us.

Rolisa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:21 pm

Cres wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:05 pm Congratulations and I also have wanted to try a vegetarian diet (I like fish and eggs) for quite some time, but have always feared that I fail. I guess I'm going to gradually modify my diet. I have to do something. My biggest concern is how do I get enough protein in a day. Mostly from fish and eggs? Or also beans and legumes? Nuts? Do you eat beans yourself?

At first I didn't think much about the protein and it was a rookie mistake. I had no knowledge about healthy eating, what our body needs and stuff like that.

But now that I'm more aware, I can say that most of my protein comes from beans, eggs, soy milk and the vegetables that usually have more protein than the others (e.g. brussels sprouts and broccoli). When I do eat bread, I also tend to eat bread with lots of grains. If you like oats, they have lots of protein as well. I used to eat lots of nuts but when I noticed that peanut butter did something to my breath, I no longer eat nuts like crazy. From time to time I eat pistachios though, and don't think I've ever noticed any change.

There was a time where I would also drink protein shakes (vegan ones) but I no longer do it. The only supplement of a similar nature that I take is collagen and I think it is considered protein? Please keep in mind that I'm not an expert. But yeah, I don't take it because it necessarily helps my bad breath or to increase my protein intake. I take it more for my hair and skin and also know that it can help those who have a leaky gut.