Bad Breath Halitosis Forum

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:05 pm**

Reading through countless stories on this forum, I have noticed the following patterns: most of those who cured went on a form of elimination diet (+sometimes meds), except 2 cases with glutathione & NAC. But the common denominator was the diet/fast!
Here are some patterns:
1)some had bb aggravated by carbs and sugar (not referring to Fodmap here)
2)some had bb aggravated by high protein food: meat & dairy, sometimes eggs
3)some had less bb on a low Fodmap (this is self explanatory, as they tested positive for sibo)
4)some had less bb on alkaline diet / bb worse from acidic food
5)some had bb aggravated by any food in general (fasting eliminates/decreases bb); eating causes the smell of food to linger
So, I have a question for you guys: Which foods worsen your bb?
Most of people fall in one of those unless they have intraoral halitosis. If we look into a type of diet that decreases bb, we can get closer to the cause or treatment.
1)if aggravated by sugar/carbs: fructose sensitivity, SIBO, IMO, SIFO; eg searching_for_acure2 got relief
2)if aggravated by high protein food: hydrogen sulfide SIBO /sulfur metabolism, hypermethioninemia, food sensitivites, or other causes; Eg user Rolisa successfully eliminated it
(the n1 & n2 have the most possibilities, but if smn is interested, I can research & post more about it).
3)if low Fodmap helps: SIBO/IMO; eg Roam1 (also known as PetalPetal); those are most frequent
4)if acid food aggravates bb or alkaline diet decreases bb: treat GERD issues; eg user mtr, cured
5)if only fasting from food decreases bb: this one is tough. Could be to do with bacteria imbalance in GI, leaky gut (when any food leaves odour), enzymes insufficiency. Eg user gotshot26 cured by doing long periods of water fast (fasting for a week kills intestinal bacteria)
6)if antibiotics help: intestinal bacterial imbalance (eg sibo) or metabolic issues with selenbp-1, tmau, etc;

Those are the main principles (rough draft) without the extra details. If you want to dive into details together, I’m open for informed discussion.

Posted: **Sat May 01, 2021 2:15 am**

I agree with you, it definitely does depend on the source. For me, it seems to be 1. Oral [fissured tongue] and 2. Stomach [SIBO] / [Possibly a 3rd cause could be GERD/Hiatal Hernia? but I'm not 100% sure on this].

For SIBO, low fodmap diet is definitely the only way to go!! Foods to avoid: dairy, sugar, high sulfuric vegetables, starches, onions+garlic, alcohol. But if you google low fodmap, you will see that these foods are already on the banned list amongst others

Posted: **Sat May 01, 2021 9:53 am**

Hi StillHoping, thank you for posting your diet!

your low Fodmap diet cured your bb, right? Or did only decrease it? I’m asking because you also listed other causes.

It’s interesting that you mentioned starches should be avoided, as I haven’t seen them on high fodmap list. In fact, cereals, potatoes, rice are listed as low Fodmap. However, maybe it makes sense because starches feed bacteria in general. It explains why some healthy low Fodmap carbs can really aggarvate bb; I’ve read other users (and myself) have worse bb from cereals, grains, rice and interestingly, bananas. By the way, does eating bananas worsen your bb? I was puzzled about why bananas are so “special” in terms of really worsening bb before, but now I understand it’s because bananas are “80% starch”!

Are you eating meat just fine? Do you include dairy substitutes, like soy milk? And what carbs do you prefer to eat? Thanks in advance

StillHoping wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:15 am I agree with you, it definitely does depend on the source. For me, it seems to be 1. Oral [fissured tongue] and 2. Stomach [SIBO] / [Possibly a 3rd cause could be GERD/Hiatal Hernia? but I'm not 100% sure on this].

For SIBO, low fodmap diet is definitely the only way to go!! Foods to avoid: dairy, sugar, high sulfuric vegetables, starches, onions+garlic, alcohol. But if you google low fodmap, you will see that these foods are already on the banned list amongst others

Posted: **Wed May 05, 2021 1:38 am**

simple wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:53 am Hi StillHoping, thank you for posting your diet! your low Fodmap diet cured your bb, right? Or did only decrease it? I’m asking because you also listed other causes.

It’s interesting that you mentioned starches should be avoided, as I haven’t seen them on high fodmap list. In fact, cereals, potatoes, rice are listed as low Fodmap. However, maybe it makes sense because starches feed bacteria in general. It explains why some healthy low Fodmap carbs can really aggarvate bb; I’ve read other users (and myself) have worse bb from cereals, grains, rice and interestingly, bananas. By the way, does eating bananas worsen your bb? I was puzzled about why bananas are so “special” in terms of really worsening bb before, but now I understand it’s because bananas are “80% starch”!

Are you eating meat just fine? Do you include dairy substitutes, like soy milk? And what carbs do you prefer to eat? Thanks in advance

Hey Simple! This is for both of your replies here- yes I did/do have SIBO and I was officially diagnosed by a Gastroenterologist. I had the usual BB as many others on this forum for most of my life but a few years ago I developed an extreme case of food poisoning while on a trip. A friend gave me some antibiotics and after this event was when the BB distinctly turned into a fecal/fart like smell that would emanate from not just my mouth but my nose as well. Soon after I got diagnosed with SIBO, my doctor did not make me take any tests as he said he does not believe in them because they are faulty. I went through 2 separate courses of "treatment" which involved taking antibiotics [rifaximin] followed by standard probiotics. The fecal smell would subside [able to smell it myself] during "treatment" but would return shortly after, so basically this "treatment" was not a cure.

When I found the gluten cutter probiotics last year, yes it did eliminate the smell pretty much right away, but over time - the side effects of excess bloating are no longer sustainable for me to be able to use it regularly. I have experimented with the low fodmap diet with amazing results, which is basically confirmation that the fecal smell is definitely due to SIBO in my case. Unfortunately the diet is very very hard to stick to. The fodmap guide that I use does list starches as high fodmap [google dr siebecker sibo diet for guide]. Right now this is what my diet looks like - I use a Vegan Mealprep service during the week: they make delicious plant based foods, saves me the trouble of having to stress over options. But as you know, a lot of veggies and "plant based" alternatives are actually very high fodmap. But then on weekends, typically when I have to socialize/go somewhere - I eat eggs, carrots, squash, seafood, green tea with raw honey & almond milk, garden salads with no dressing if I go to a restaurant. I dont eat too much animal products now but sometimes ill order salt and pepper wings or fried shrimp. Yes for me bananas are bad, the guide does say the banana must be "fresh and dried" [whatever that means lol] and plantains are a no go.

I get what you mean about the effects of the enzymes lasting longer if I follow the diet strictly. I just find it extremely difficult, and honestly I'm miserable the whole time when following a strict diet lol. So no I am not cured, I am just managing the BB as best as I can without making myself miserable. Hopefully one day, I really would like to get strict with it and eat only alkaline low fodmap meals consistently but its hard :-(

Posted: **Wed May 05, 2021 4:32 pm**

StillHoping wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 1:38 am
When I found the gluten cutter probiotics last year, yes it did eliminate the smell pretty much right away, but over time - the side effects of excess bloating are no longer sustainable for me to be able to use it regularly. I have experimented with the low fodmap diet with amazing results, which is basically confirmation that the fecal smell is definitely due to SIBO in my case. Unfortunately the diet is very very hard to stick to. The fodmap guide that I use does list starches as high fodmap [google dr siebecker sibo diet for guide]. Right now this is what my diet looks like - I use a Vegan Mealprep service during the week: they make delicious plant based foods, saves me the trouble of having to stress over options. But as you know, a lot of veggies and "plant based" alternatives are actually very high fodmap. But then on weekends, typically when I have to socialize/go somewhere - I eat eggs, carrots, squash, seafood, green tea with raw honey & almond milk, garden salads with no dressing if I go to a restaurant. I dont eat too much animal products now but sometimes ill order salt and pepper wings or fried shrimp. Yes for me bananas are bad, the guide does say the banana must be "fresh and dried" [whatever that means lol] and plantains are a no go.

I get what you mean about the effects of the enzymes lasting longer if I follow the diet strictly. I just find it extremely difficult, and honestly I'm miserable the whole time when following a strict diet lol. So no I am not cured, I am just managing the BB as best as I can without making myself miserable. Hopefully one day, I really would like to get strict with it and eat only alkaline low fodmap meals consistently but its hard :-(

Hi Stillhoping,

I read your posts with interest after seeing you find success following that spanish guy Jorge's advice and I had wondered how you were getting on as you'd been absent from the forum for a long time.

I read that you mentioned you were only taking the gluten cutter once a week more recently as it was causing you bloating, I wonder why as in theory the enzymes should of been decreasing your bloating? Unless the release of glucose and other complex subtances from the foods you were eating then actually created more gas, that is perhaps plausible.

I'm interested to know more details about your experience with the Nasal BB when you first started taking those Enzymes and then whether you were still experiencing no Nasal BB whilst taking one enzyme per week when you noticed you were still bloating. Also are you still taking any and what is your current Nasal BB situation?

Would also be interesting to hear your thoughts on the user Rolisa who was seemingly cured by using solgar digestive enzymes along with going close to gluten free. That particular brands ingredients seem quite generic nothing special just the usual blend of pancreatin and a few extras. Seems Gluten may be something quite troublesome.

All the best!

Posted: **Wed May 05, 2021 11:03 pm**

Hi Stillhoping,

I read your posts with interest after seeing you find success following that spanish guy Jorge's advice and I had wondered how you were getting on as you'd been absent from the forum for a long time.

I read that you mentioned you were only taking the gluten cutter once a week more recently as it was causing you bloating, I wonder why as in theory the enzymes should of been decreasing your bloating? Unless the release of glucose and other complex subtances from the foods you were eating then actually created more gas, that is perhaps plausible.

I'm interested to know more details about your experience with the Nasal BB when you first started taking those Enzymes and then whether you were still experiencing no Nasal BB whilst taking one enzyme per week when you noticed you were still bloating. Also are you still taking any and what is your current Nasal BB situation?

Would also be interesting to hear your thoughts on the user Rolisa who was seemingly cured by using solgar digestive enzymes along with going close to gluten free. That particular brands ingredients seem quite generic nothing special just the usual blend of pancreatin and a few extras. Seems Gluten may be something quite troublesome.

All the best!

Hi Ethan,

I honestly have no idea why the gc causes me to bloat like this, I didn't have this issue when I first started taking it. But over time it just crept up on me and kept getting worse. Originally, I would take 1 - 2 pills before every single meal, so maybe I was overdoing it? I can't really speculate on the science behind it all but I do know SIBO can be a very tricky thing as any type of overgrowth of good or bad stuff in the gut is always a bad idea if you have SIBO. I guess I should eventually try to find a cure for the SIBO in the first place [if a cure is even possible, alot of things i've read seems like it can be a re-occurring issue if you have had it once]. Since the "medical" treatment approach did not give long lasting results, I will probably try out a more holistic approach next time.

I do take the gluten cutter but typically just one pill the day before the weekend/ when I have to socialize and I believe it does still work well enough. But even just that gets me veryyy bloated and a weird "fullness" and uneasy feeling in my stomach, very hard to explain. And yes it does seem to eliminate the nasal BB; the nasal BB comes right back after and I can smell it myself.

I dont know how much impact avoiding gluten is for us with BB but in general its just one of those bad things that we might as well stay away from. Same thing with sugar or dairy, we know its not good and it definitely doesn't hurt to stay away from those foods.

Posted: **Sat May 08, 2021 8:49 am**

Thank you for the detailed answer!

Are you implying that before you got the food poisoning, your bb was likely only from the mouth?
Yes, I read SIBO is very hard to treat because after the treatment with antibiotics, it often returns.
Do you think maybe you developed gluten sensitivity after the food poisoning or it was there all along? So, you follow low Fodmap + no gluten with good results? Were you following low Fodmap during & after the antibiotics treatment?
Yes, I know the diet is very restrictive and it is hard to find a lot of recipes without getting sick of eating same thing every day. Are you able to be more or less sugar-free? I find it the hardest.
Thank you for sharing the diet & info on the food company! Honey doesn’t worsen your bb (for me it does even more than chocolate)?
Don’t worry, StillHoping, I’m sure after a while it will be more habitual & hence, won’t require so much willpower!

StillHoping wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 1:38 am
simple wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:53 am Hi StillHoping, thank you for posting your diet! your low Fodmap diet cured your bb, right? Or did only decrease it? I’m asking because you also listed other causes.

It’s interesting that you mentioned starches should be avoided, as I haven’t seen them on high fodmap list. In fact, cereals, potatoes, rice are listed as low Fodmap. However, maybe it makes sense because starches feed bacteria in general. It explains why some healthy low Fodmap carbs can really aggarvate bb; I’ve read other users (and myself) have worse bb from cereals, grains, rice and interestingly, bananas. By the way, does eating bananas worsen your bb? I was puzzled about why bananas are so “special” in terms of really worsening bb before, but now I understand it’s because bananas are “80% starch”!

Are you eating meat just fine? Do you include dairy substitutes, like soy milk? And what carbs do you prefer to eat? Thanks in advance
Hey Simple! This is for both of your replies here- yes I did/do have SIBO and I was officially diagnosed by a Gastroenterologist. I had the usual BB as many others on this forum for most of my life but a few years ago I developed an extreme case of food poisoning while on a trip. A friend gave me some antibiotics and after this event was when the BB distinctly turned into a fecal/fart like smell that would emanate from not just my mouth but my nose as well. Soon after I got diagnosed with SIBO, my doctor did not make me take any tests as he said he does not believe in them because they are faulty. I went through 2 separate courses of "treatment" which involved taking antibiotics [rifaximin] followed by standard probiotics. The fecal smell would subside [able to smell it myself] during "treatment" but would return shortly after, so basically this "treatment" was not a cure.

When I found the gluten cutter probiotics last year, yes it did eliminate the smell pretty much right away, but over time - the side effects of excess bloating are no longer sustainable for me to be able to use it regularly. I have experimented with the low fodmap diet with amazing results, which is basically confirmation that the fecal smell is definitely due to SIBO in my case. Unfortunately the diet is very very hard to stick to. The fodmap guide that I use does list starches as high fodmap [google dr siebecker sibo diet for guide]. Right now this is what my diet looks like - I use a Vegan Mealprep service during the week: they make delicious plant based foods, saves me the trouble of having to stress over options. But as you know, a lot of veggies and "plant based" alternatives are actually very high fodmap. But then on weekends, typically when I have to socialize/go somewhere - I eat eggs, carrots, squash, seafood, green tea with raw honey & almond milk, garden salads with no dressing if I go to a restaurant. I dont eat too much animal products now but sometimes ill order salt and pepper wings or fried shrimp. Yes for me bananas are bad, the guide does say the banana must be "fresh and dried" [whatever that means lol] and plantains are a no go.

I get what you mean about the effects of the enzymes lasting longer if I follow the diet strictly. I just find it extremely difficult, and honestly I'm miserable the whole time when following a strict diet lol. So no I am not cured, I am just managing the BB as best as I can without making myself miserable. Hopefully one day, I really would like to get strict with it and eat only alkaline low fodmap meals consistently but its hard :-(

Posted: **Sun May 09, 2021 4:41 am**

Thank you for the detailed answer!
Are you implying that before you got the food poisoning, your bb was likely only from the mouth?
Yes, I read SIBO is very hard to treat because after the treatment with antibiotics, it often returns.
Do you think maybe you developed gluten sensitivity after the food poisoning or it was there all along? So, you follow low Fodmap + no gluten with good results? Were you following low Fodmap during & after the antibiotics treatment?
Yes, I know the diet is very restrictive and it is hard to find a lot of recipes without getting sick of eating same thing every day. Are you able to be more or less sugar-free? I find it the hardest.
Thank you for sharing the diet & info on the food company! Honey doesn’t worsen your bb (for me it does even more than chocolate)?
Don’t worry, StillHoping, I’m sure after a while it will be more habitual & hence, won’t require so much willpower!

Hey Simple
- I do not know if I had SIBO before the food poisoning incident, its just that my BB turned fecal and also through the nose after this incident. Prior to this, it would be a stale odor that would take on the smell of whatever I ate
- I do not know if I developed gluten sensitivity from this but my personal belief is gluten is bad for anyone and everyone, just like how refined sugar is bad for anyone. The low fodmap guide I use does not include gluten food items, so maybe gluten foods are inherently high fodmap?
- I only stick to the low fodmap diet when I have to go somewhere and yes the smell is completely gone/no reactions if I stick to the diet
- I ate a lot of junk food while on antibiotics because I had read that it supposedly helps to bring out the bad bacteria so that the antibiotics can easily kill them off. I then tried the low fodmap diet after completing the course of antibiotics but honestly I could not stick with it for long. I don't remember but I don't think I even made it up to one week lol
- Yes I definitely try to stay sugar free but I have my weak moments and I agree it is extremely hard. Small amounts of raw honey in green tea does not seem to affect me, although I only have tea just once or twice in a week

Hope this helps and good luck

Posted: **Thu May 13, 2021 12:05 pm**

Hi StillHoping, I’ve read a study (link is below) where a girl, who developed bb due to shifts in GI flora, was cured after taking Mutaflor (E. Coli Nissle1917) with 2ml daily for almost 3 months. I think it’s potentially useful, so decided to post it. The researcher states that (I put in excerpts):

“Halitosis, in a narrower sense, can be caused by <...> an increased formation of malodorous intestinal gases (e.g. fatty acids with low molecular weight, ammonia, methylmercaptan, indoles, skatoles, hydrogensulphide). The formation of these gases can arise from:
1) disturbed digestion of nutrients due to altered intestinal transit time or
2) abnormal intestinal bacterial flora. In addition, the composition of nutrition influences the type of bowel gases pro- duced.
Treatment options:
1) change of nutrition, if the ratio of proteins, carbohydrates and lipids is inadequate
2) change of bacterial flora by administering lactulose or live non-pathogenic bacterial strains
3) short-term antibiotic treatment (e.g. with vancomycin or neomycin).
In this case:
1) patient has diet rich in fibre -> 2) administration of live non-pathogenic E. coli to recolonise the inestine with normal or other intestinal bacteria & suppress flora that breaks down nutrients forming foul-smelling gases.
3) overall, antibiotics can be used to produce better starting conditions for the probiotics by reducing the existing bacterial flora.”

Moreover, bb can be caused by increased intestinal permeability, whereas this particular bacteria reduces it (second probable mechanism of action that cured this girl).

Took this from internet: “Prebiotics and certain probiotics such as Escherichia coli Nissle 1917 have been found to reduce increased intestinal permeability. Lactobacillus rhamnosus, Lactobacillus reuteri, and Faecalibacterium prausnitzii have also been shown to significantly reduce increased intestinal permeability.” The instructions / descriptions for the medicine state it has the ability to stabilise & normalise intestinal barrier function.

Maybe it’s worth trying this probiotics treatment as well? This gives me hope... I think I’ll try Mutaflor after taking Sibo tests (and after antibiotics if it will be positive).

StillHoping wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 4:41 am
Hey Simple
- I do not know if I had SIBO before the food poisoning incident, its just that my BB turned fecal and also through the nose after this incident. Prior to this, it would be a stale odor that would take on the smell of whatever I ate
- I do not know if I developed gluten sensitivity from this but my personal belief is gluten is bad for anyone and everyone, just like how refined sugar is bad for anyone. The low fodmap guide I use does not include gluten food items, so maybe gluten foods are inherently high fodmap?
- I only stick to the low fodmap diet when I have to go somewhere and yes the smell is completely gone/no reactions if I stick to the diet
- I ate a lot of junk food while on antibiotics because I had read that it supposedly helps to bring out the bad bacteria so that the antibiotics can easily kill them off. I then tried the low fodmap diet after completing the course of antibiotics but honestly I could not stick with it for long. I don't remember but I don't think I even made it up to one week lol
- Yes I definitely try to stay sugar free but I have my weak moments and I agree it is extremely hard. Small amounts of raw honey in green tea does not seem to affect me, although I only have tea just once or twice in a week

Hope this helps and good luck

Bad Breath Halitosis Forum

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