salivary glycoproteins

[halitosisux]

Phantasist, I know you believe there might be some component of saliva which is either dysfunctional or missing etc, and I countered this by saying that I didnt agree because it would be straightforward and possible enough to compare the constituents of saliva between those with BB and those without, and indentify what is missing or wrong.

I've always thought that saliva itself could be a possible cause of BB, but in an indirect way, and I've come across this bit of info which might explain how this could happen. There's loads more info if you search for it. A lot of the research involves Dr Mel Rosenberg.

"A new research found results that suggest Gram-positive micro-organisms such as S. salivarius contribute to oral malodor production by deglycosylating salivary glycoproteins, thus exposing their protein core to further degradation by Gram-negative micro-organisms. Studies show a direct link between levels of Streptococcus salivarius in the mouth, throat and tonsils and the development of halitosis. Current research is being done to better understand mouth odor in relation to S. salivarius."

I know S.salivarius is supposed to do the opposite and help BB, but maybe its for totally different reasons and different strains of streptococcus.

[halitosisux]

I'm reading more and more on this. Here are a few snippets I've found.. more to follow..

Emerging treatments
Glycosylation inhibitors
"Deglycosylation of salivary glycoproteins may be an initial step in oral malodour production. This process exposes the protein core of the glycoprotein, which is then further degraded by gram-negative microorganisms under anaerobic conditions. Glycosidic inhibitors (e.g., galactosamine) have been suggested to potentially reduce oral malodour production. In one in vitro study, the use of a glycosidic inhibitor (D-galactosamine) inhibited salivary glycoprotein degradation and consequent malodour production. Further in vivo human studies are required."

Probiotic placement of bacteria
"The primary treatment for oral malodour is the reduction of bacterial populations by use of a variety of antimicrobial agents or mechanical devices. However, halitosis-related bacteria quickly repopulate the oral surfaces after treatment. In a pilot study, a broadly active antimicrobial (chlorhexidine) was used to effect temporary depletion of the oral microbiota and an attempt was made to repopulate the tongue surface with Streptococcus salivarius K12, a benign commensal probiotic. The objective was to prevent re-establishment of non-desirable bacterial populations, and thus help limit the recurrence of oral malodour. The majority (8/13) of treated participants with confirmed halitosis maintained reduced breath levels of volatile sulphur compounds (VSCs) for at least 2 weeks. Probiotic bacterial strains originally sourced from the indigenous oral microbiotas of healthy humans may have potential application as adjuncts for the prevention and treatment of halitosis"


"Gram positive microorganisms may also be involved in the initial stages of malodor production by deglycosylating the glycoproteins that are subsequently broken down by the proteolytic enzymes secreted by the Gram negative bacteria."

Apparently Triclosan (in Colgage Total toothpaste and mouthwash) works by its action on glycoproteins.

[Phantasist]

Very interesting. Difficult to understand, but interesting.

It does appear that my idea of diminishing the anaerobic bacteria with antibacterial substances and quickly introducing probiotics wasn't entirely off the wall.

Of course, not being a microbiologist, I don't know nearly enough about this subject to even talk about it intelligently.

I am just groping in the dark, using trial and error to bring about a positive change in the microfloral environment of my mouth. I have noticed improvement, but at this point I have no idea if the anaerobes can be permanently suppressed and if the probiotics are self-sustaining.

I have done a little research based on your first post, but much more would be needed to understand the chemical interactions.

[aydinmur]

S. salivarius M7 and K12 strains are most popular ones. They relase salivaricin like enzymes. There are some products marketting since 2002. Here photo: http://agizkokusu.net/garbage/sil1.jpg
Also, There are good publications (Tagg J, 2002), (Walls T, 2003).

Halitosisux,
Every metabolic pathway may be connected to odor production. For example, If we had stopped metabolism of proteins, then, bad odor would stop. With a moderate speculation, glutaraldehyde rinse can be offered to prevent halitosis. (glutaraldehyde fixes and blocks proteins) No. We must not stop protein metabolism in mouth. With a similar logic, no need to stop glycoprotein degradation with galactosamine. Did you know galactosamine is one of membran component of some Gram positive bacteria such as oral Actinomyces or Propionibacterium strains. On the other hand it enhances receptor blockage on epithelial cells, more over it contributes bacterial growth in mouth. When glycoprotein degradation pathway is blocked, then carbohydrate degradation may be accelerated to compensate this. Thus, biologic medium turns to acid pH. Too complex mechanisms operate here.

I remember a study that breaks proteins with weak proteases on tongue surface to prevent halitosis. Its failed.

I dont support the idea use glycosidic or any other metabolic inhibitors, This is my opinion.

- Murat

[Phantasist]

Probiotic placement of bacteria
"The primary treatment for oral malodour is the reduction of bacterial populations by use of a variety of antimicrobial agents or mechanical devices. However, halitosis-related bacteria quickly repopulate the oral surfaces after treatment. In a pilot study, a broadly active antimicrobial (chlorhexidine) was used to effect temporary depletion of the oral microbiota and an attempt was made to repopulate the tongue surface with Streptococcus salivarius K12, a benign commensal probiotic. The objective was to prevent re-establishment of non-desirable bacterial populations, and thus help limit the recurrence of oral malodour. The majority (8/13) of treated participants with confirmed halitosis maintained reduced breath levels of volatile sulphur compounds (VSCs) for at least 2 weeks. Probiotic bacterial strains originally sourced from the indigenous oral microbiotas of healthy humans may have potential application as adjuncts for the prevention and treatment of halitosis"

Halitosisux,
You've hit upon exactly what I'm trying to do. We both know that it may not work because it does not eliminate the underlying cause of the microbial imbalance in the mouth.

[Phantasist]

Halitosisux,

It appears that Aydin Murat thinks that inhibiting the Deglycosylation of salivary glycoproteins is the wrong way to go. But he apparently does feel that the application of oral probiotics may be of some benefit.

And as you say, Streptococcus Salivarius is supposed to be beneficial for the microfloral ecology of the mouth. That it would be instrumental in prodcing BB seems counterintuitive.

[halitosisux]

Thanks for your replies Aydinmur and Phantasist.

[thanatos]

"[3] N. Sterer1, and M. Rosenberg "Streptococcus salivarius Promotes Mucin Putrefaction and Malodor Production by Porphyromonas gingivalis".2006.Journal of Dental Reserach. p. 910-914."

That's Mel Rosenberg, creator of Dentyl PH which is in direct competition with S. Salivarius products. Of course his research is going to find that his competitor's products suck compared to his own

[fresh]

If you’re like most people your bb comes from your mouth, bb comes from the biofilm on the tongue, and around the taste buds. An ongoing removal of the biofilm and exposure to the taste buds to brushing then scraping the tongue.

This is all an effort to keep the biofilm under 2 days old. Try it you could be surprised, and think about yoga for stress.

[Phantasist]

Fresh, two observations:

1) I have scraped the white coating on my tongue off and let it dry outside the mouth and found - to my great surprise - that it did not have the slightest odor!

2) There is an underlying cause for the coating/bad breath which in most cases is not known and therefore cannot be eliminated.