BB IMPROVEMENT???!!!! ADVICE???!!!!

[Snobuni]

Ok, so this is weird, over the past 3-4 days I think my bb has really improved.

I can only put it down to one of two things;

1. I've had a mild sore throat for the past few days and maybe my immune system has kicked in and some how is tackling any bad bacteria in my throat/mouth.

2. I've been eating crappy food since xmas day and have had terrible indigestion every day since then. So I've been munching my way through packets of pepto-bismol, gaviscon and rennies day and night.

I noticed at first that my bb was taking longer to kick in after brushing and eating, then, that the bad taste had gone, and then yesterday, despite eating everything that normally makes my bb worse (ice cream, eggs, fish, cheese, strong salsa) I don't think I have bb at all (not that I'm totally certain, but I can usually smell my own breath and I can't any more. When I lick my wrist it doesn't smell like sour vinegar, sweaty feet or fish anymore, it's just got a very mild odour that I wouldn't describe as bad)!!

I never thought that reflux could be the cause of my bb, but now I'm not so sure. I'm due to start on medication for HP tomorrow, but now I'm not sure if the antibiotics might do more harm than good, by killing off any remaining good bacteria I have in my intestines and mouth and maybe allowing the bad bacteria to really get a grip and take hold.

What do you guys think? As part of my regime, I'll be taking pepto-bismol and acid blockers which hopefully will help, I'm just not too sure about the antibiotics now.

Sorry for the long post.

[Green]

It very well could be your problem. Congratz if you're cured.
p.s. Do you have PND? (I know, I know, it's a random question)

[DRASTIC]

congrats Snobuni,

Hope it all works out for you.

Drastic

[Snobuni]

Thanks Drastic,

I'm going to see how things go over the weekend with the antacids, then deceide on Monday whether or not to try the medication.

Green,

I have mild PND, and I have smelly mucous, I can smell it when I rub my nose or (sorry to be gross) put my finger up my nose then smell the mucous. I still have this which makes me wonder if I still have bb (and have just improved it slightly) or nasal bb.

[halitosisux]

Hey Snobuni,
For someone who suffers so easily with indigestion gastritis etc, im presuming you must have used antacids in the past - have u ever noticed improvements like this before?
Have a read of the link below, the vapours from stomach acids can rise up into the nasal cavity and cause sinus/nasal problems, the symptoms can present as being completely unconnected to the usual symptoms of acid reflux - irritation of mucus membranes and the consequences of this being the only symptoms.
It would be great if you have inadvertantly stumbled upon this. If i were you i'd wait until you've seen your ENT before u take the antibiotics and propose LPR to your ENT and mention the effects antacids have had.
It may turn out that HP infection is behind it all, but its important that if acid reflux is behind your BB that you control this and isolate the cause, HP, if present, can be dealt with after. Good luck!

Edit: forgot to paste the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laryngopharyngeal_reflux

[halitosisux]

I forgot to mention that its possible that the antacids are acting to alter the pH level in your mouth and throat, and this alone may be affecting the oral microbial flora.

[Snobuni]

Hey Halitosisux,

I'm really not sure what to make of this. I never really suffered from indigestion in the past, only the occasional bout (as most people have)were I'd take a couple of antacids and not be bothered by it again for a long time.

Then my GP prescribed me acid blockers over the summer, just to see if they'd have any effect on my bb, not because I had acid/reflux symptoms. They didn't have any effect on my bb, but I was taking St Johns Wort at the time, and I've since found out that this stops the acid blocker working.

I usually follow an anti-candida diet and don't have indigestion (I still have bb though), but the minute I have anything other than veggies and brown rice I now get indigestion, so I'm not surprised I've suffered so badly with it over xmas. Someone on this forum once mentioned that they took pepto-bismol to control their bb and I tried this for a couple of days before without any success, but now I'm thinking it may have something to do with the number of tablets taken, as I've been taking alot more each day, maybe this is what's making a difference.

I really don't know about waiting 'til I've seen my ENT 'til I take the antibiotics. If I don't take them starting Monday, I'll have no choice but to wait until after, otherwise I'll be on them when I see him and my breath won't smell at all! As I said, I'll wait and see how this all goes over the weekend. My smelly mucous still worries me though, there's been no change with that.

PS If the antacids are affecting the ph of my mouth/throat, this can only be a good thing, right? I've starting taking probiotics again too, it can't make things worse.

[halitosisux]

Hi Snobuni,
Worth seeking your doctor's opinions regarding the acid blockers you were put on and what you're currently experiencing. This is something worth persuing since it has helped others with BB.
I know that Pepto-Bismol has antibacterial properties, so this could be a factor in what's happening, particularly with the higher dosages you say you are taking.
It's a hard decision on the antibiotics because the last thing you want is your symptoms and the clues they may offer disappearing when your ENT appointment is due. Also, if your ENT knows you are currently trying other things with your doctor they may look at the situation less enthusiastically.
Your aim is to get to the root of your problem, so anything which is just altering your BB (like alterations in pH could do) its a good thing if it provides clues which lead you in the right directions. Whether higher or lower pH translates into higher or lower bacterial activity probably depends on many other individual factors, so its hard to say.
You say you've recently started taking probiotics again, could this be a factor too? So many things can disurb the oral flora and cause alterations in BB levels, which always seem to settle back again as micro-organisms adapt to the situation, including probiotics.
My advice to you is to try stick to one thing at a time, otherwise it becomes so confusing and you could so easily miss vital clues and discoveries. Good luck with whatever you decide to do, please keep us informed along the way.

[Snobuni]

Hey Halitosisux,

Thanks for your comments.

Did you read the first posting in the 'Bismuth Manages My BB' thread? That suggests it's more to do with coating the tongue with antibacterial particles rather than supressing stomach acid.

Sounds like a very possible reason, all I know is that it's working for now, but it may stop working at some point when the bacteria stop reacting to the pepto-bismol.

I suppose the only way to test this will be to stop the pepto-bismol for a week or so and see if my bb comes back. I might do that next week and see what happens. I think, as you suggested, that it may be better to leave the antibiotics until after my ENT appointment. It would probably be a good idea to stop the pepto-bismol before my appointment too.

The only draw back is the black tongue, yuck! Seems like a small price to pay for ok breath though!

[halitosisux]

lol Snobuni,
how typical that bright PINK bottles of pepto-bismol turn the tongue BLACK!
Yep, i read the thead u mentioned about this stuff and it seems likely that the antibacterial properties are behind your improvement, but its still worth further investigations into whether you have issues with acid reflux/LPR.
Its worth continuing with this as far as you can before your ENT appointment, and then the antibiotics after that.

[Snobuni]

God I know, why on earth does something that looks like a strawberry milkshake make you look like you've been sucking on a lump of charcoal!!!

On the plus side, it does taste quite nice...

I was thinking exactly that, take the HP treatment after my ENT appointment. If my bb returns when I've finished the course at least I'll have something that will make it possible to be less paranoid about this problem, and not spend 24/7 worrying about it and feeling depressed.

[snoopsister]

You say you've recently started taking probiotics again, could this be a factor too? So many things can disurb the oral flora and cause alterations in BB levels, which always seem to settle back again as micro-organisms adapt to the situation,"





does the bacteria always win? I do really well for a while then it returns. Also, I know for a fact that my stomach is related to BB

[Snobuni]

Snoopsister,

I don't think the probiotics have anything to do with the improvement in my bb. I've taken large amounts of probiotics in the past and they didn't alter my bb at all. I only took the probiotics for acouple of days, then forgot to take them again, I was thinking maybe now would be a could time to take them if my stomach and throat are in a condition to help them establish. But, as Pepto-Bismol has an antibacterial effect, it's probably just killing them off as quickly as I'm taking them.

I think it's definately the Pepto-Bismol that's making the difference.

[halitosisux]

Hi Snoopsister,

Bacteria and most micro-organisms have evolved to adapt to their environments by many different means. Generally if we do something which disturbs them or their environment, our BB can improve in that time, but within a few days the bacteria will adapt to it. Unless we get to the root of any abnormal situation which is allowing their activity to produce perceivable odours, we're always back to square one again.
All humans have germs in their mouth, maybe its just due to the types of bacteria present which determine whether we have BB or not. Maybe its due to the environment in which these germs live (chemical, immune system, etc). Certain diseases (chronic or otherwise) within the vicinity of the mouth could be allowing certain bacterial presense (ie sinusitis, dental problems) or the release of products/chemicals in such situations themselves either directly producing foul compounds or indirectly causing excessive activity of "normal" bacterial flora.
Of course, there are many other mechanisms which can give us BB, such as stomach/esophegal abnormalities or certain systemic illnesses in which odours find their way into the mouth via the lungs or saliva and out through our breath, but what makes you say that you know for a fact that your particular BB problem is related to your stomach?

[snoopsister]

Halit,


It makes sense. I took a shit load of antibiotics for acne in highshool 4 over 2 years, and then ,my breath became offensive. I developed stomach problems after that too. I am only assuming I don't know 4 a fact. I tried everything, therabreath, vitamin c etc.. could the answer be that we need to switch up frequently on remedies so the bacteria will be out smarted?