Fresh Breath All Day at Last

[searching]

how long did you use the hydrogen peroxide solution? i'm wondering how long i should use it for before i switch to water only in my waterpik

chubbygirl,

How about switching to plain, warm water immediately, and irrigate several times, in series, with the jet-tip followed by brush tips.

After brushing & flossing, I irrigate at the highest flow rate, walking the jet tip along the tooth/gumline and between each tooth with one tankful. I then use the small brush tip, then the large brush tip on teeth, gums, and tongue, one tankful for each tip, gently brushing, also at the highest water-flow rate.

By the end of this water-only, routine the residue and tanginess are gone, and the plaque-formers seem to be at a sufficiently-low population to dramatically delay their return.

I haven't used peroxide, or any mouthwash, for many months; and, I hope to stay with plain water only.

[chubbygirl]

alright. thanks, searching

[pf442]

I have a "weird" raw feeling on the back of my tongue.

I've reduced the use of triclosan containing toothpaste to once daily, as my tongue was retaining a medicinal quality (after about two months of twice-daily use).

I have always had a fairly dry mouth, but wasn't ever particularly concerned about odour until about four weeks ago.

I had been using Colgate Total (with Triclosan) intermittently for months - at my dentists recommendation - but only got into the routine of brushing twice a day with it about six weeks ago. After about a fortnight I developed a persistent bitter taste in the back of my mouth, which is essentially the problem that I am now trying to solve.

At first, I didn't put it down to the Triclosan, and started cleaning my tongue more thoroughly, drinking more water, flossing, using an oral irrigator, etc. But to no avail. I have consulted two doctors: the first, a GP, fobbed me off, saying that I should just find something else to think about; the second, an ENT, told me not to worry because it is just a quality of life issue (of course, I explained that I hadn't expected to die from a persistent bitter taste, but that a condition impinging upon my quality of life still constituted, IMHO, a significant problem - naturally, he didn't give much of a shit).

Anyway, after reading this thread and researching a little about Triclosan online, I am curious as to whether my continued use of Colgate Total might be at the root of my troubles. You both ('why me?' and 'searching') describe tongue issues following prolonged use of Colgate Total; could you please, if possible, describe a little more clearly how your tongues felt/tasted/smelled and if the 'raw feeling' or 'medicinal quality' eventually abated? Thanks.

My working hypothesis - potentially an ill-informed one - is that constant use of Triclosan has given rise to a resistant bacterial/fungal strain in my mouth, that is now dominant because the toothpaste has continued to kill off competing species. What I am hoping is that discontinuing Triclosan usage will, in time, allow other species to reassert themselves, restoring balance.

I hope that I will soon be able to solve my own (relatively minor) problem, and that other posters may be able to find some interest in what I have said. I can say, absolutely, that the past four weeks have instilled me with a sympathy for chronic halitosis sufferers that I will not quickly forget. I can imagine that it is an utterly soul destroying condition, not least because the medical community don't really seem too bothered about it, and other people generally take it - often wrongly - as a simple sign of poor personal hygiene. It seems to me that it would be a comparatively straightforward condition to combat successfully, if the scientific community put real effort into pursuing the root causes, rather than just treating the symptoms.

Additionally - perhaps of no interest to anybody - I intend to stop using all Triclosan and Flouride toothpastes, and move instead to Euthymol, which I have heard many good things about.

[halitosisux]

An article coauthored by Dr. Stuart Levy in the August 6, 1998 issue of Nature warned that triclosan's overuse could cause resistant strains of bacteria to develop, in much the same way that antibiotic-resistant bacterial strains are emerging. In 2003, the Scottish Sunday Herald newspaper reported that some UK supermarkets and other retailers were considering phasing out products containing triclosan.

Antibiotics can cause strange tastes because of their disruptive effect on the bacterial flora in the mouth. [/quote]

[emotional rescue]

Hello all,

I’ve been using an oral irrigator for several years with good results. It hasn’t cured BB but it allows me to manage it very well. I use it once daily in the morning after brushing teeth and tongue and flossing.

Recently I made an observation. As I use the irrigator, the smooth plastic tip, immediately develops a biofilm (plaque) that feels somewhat rough as sensed by my lips while moving the tip inward and outward to contact all teeth. The sticky plaque eventually dislodges from the irrigator tip; however, I often have to use three (3) irrigator reservoirs-full, i.e. 3 x 750mls before the biofilm ceases to redeposit on the irrigator tip. After completing this routine, my mouth feels very fresh all day, despite what I subsequently eat or drink.

In the course of irrigating at the highest flow-rate, using three reservoirs of plain, warm water, I use the three tips seen in the left-half of the photograph below, i.e. first using a jet-tip, next a jet tip with the small white brush, and finally the brush tip. I use these tips to irrigate between my teeth, along the tooth/gumline interface, and the tongue (using the brush).

This routine helps tremendously in starting the day by dislodging and flushing-out, tenaciously-adhesive microbes. I am not affiliated with this product. My intention is to share this technique.

Hi searching,

Thanks so much for the info and the update.

I will give this a try, since i think is the healthiest and more common sence option to keep bacteria and biofilm to a reasonable level.

Also, my best results were by scrapping my tongue repeateadly with a tung brush with tung gel, so I think that if I ad the waterpick to my cleanning rutine, I hope that the results could be better.
Also, I have only one tooth with a crown, due to a cavitie since i was 14 years old, it's the only cavitie that i had in my life, (I'm not sure if the crown is made from ceramic or from porcelain).
The thing is, that when i floss within this tooth and the one that follows, this is the only place when it's smells weird and not pleaseant at all. And sometimes the floss gets out from that place like a little darker.
I wonder if this place could have something to do with my overall bb condition, since 14 years old was the age when i started to realize that i had this problem.
Anyway, I'm thinking that maybe with the waterpik i will be able to keep that area much cleaner.

Is this the one that i should buy?

http://www.waterpik.com/oral-health/pro ... er/WP-100/

Also, I saw that now there is a cordless version,

http://www.waterpik.com/oral-health/pro ... er/WP-450/

it seems more comfortable and practical, do you think it would be the same, or maybe is not so powerfull like the big one?

(I'm not trying to do any publicity about it, but, since i'm from south america, i don't want to order a wrong one).

Also, what do you think about the tongue cleaner tip? Is it usefull?

- And, Another thing that i would like to ask:

I was thinking about this weird idea: Since the bacteria that produces bb is anaerobic, do you ever thinked about trying some kind of Compressed Air, like a compressed Air can, that could be directly and powerfully delivered straight to the tongue, and possibly reducing some amount of anaerobic bacteria by doing it?

I was thinking in something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Falcon-Dust-Off-XL- ... 500wt_1156

But it should be another one that should be from plain O2 and nothing more. And it should be powerfully delivered. Does anyone know if such thing exists?

Cause the regular ones i think they have some chemicals, and a biterrant to avoid any kind of inhalation.

Does it sounds stupid?

Thanks and best wishes to all

[mike987]

Wow, why am I not using a Water Pik? Looks like a nice product.

[searching]

Hi emotional rescue,

In the past I’ve observed that after I brushed and flossed, and then rinsed with a cupful of water, my mouth didn’t feel clean, as a persistent, slick, slimy bio-film refused to leave my mouth and my BB persisted. No amount of further-brushing seemed to improve my condition. Mouthwash didn’t help. Brushing, flossing, and [gentle] rinsing could not combat the plaque that adhered in the multiple depths and crevices in my teeth, gums, and tongue.

I discovered that this routine, of three tanksful using these irrigation tips, positively scours and effectively removes the adhesive, odorous bio-film.

I do not have an affiliation with the below-mentioned product. It is, however, working extremely-well for me. I imagine any name-brand of countertop oral irrigator will do an equivalent job.

I do not have experience with cordless models of irrigator. I cannot comment on them.

I own the WaterPik WP-100, countertop model and I use it, with plain warm water (no chemicals), on the highest-flow setting:
• first tankful using the jet-tip (3rd from left in photo with the green ring on handle, or 1st on right blue ring) at teeth/gumline (top & bottom, cheek & tongue sides),
• followed by a second tankful using the small brush-tip (second from left in photo, orange handle, also at teeth/gumline),
• followed by a third tankful using the large, white, brush-tip all-over, teeth, gums, and tongue. This brush tip is very effective as the last step for the teeth and tongue surface.

My WP-100 was delivered with all six (6) tips seen in photo. I haven't used the remaining 2 tips (in photo tongue scraper or rubber tip) with much success. Your experience may be different with these.

Two days ago I had a large garlic pizza for dinner and, in the past; this would have exacerbated my BB throughout the next day. The following morning I brushed, flossed, then used the 3-tankful, plain, warm-water routine, using the three irrigator tips mentioned above, and all traces of the garlic-laden meal were gone. A one-tankful irrigation did not remove all plaque. For me it requires three serial irrigations each morning. It is inconvenient; however, it is positively working. Now, each morning, the condition of my mouth feels better than if I had just left the dental hygienists office.

It may be that this effective-irrigation scours the biofilm to a very shallow depth allowing air-borne oxygen to penetrate throughout and keep the anaerobes to a low-level. I’ve found that plain warm water is working without the need for further oxygenating agents. Your experience may be different.

Best wishes for success in finding a method that works for you. I wish there were a way to accomplish this morning task more-quickly. Until then, I'm staying with this method. An extra ten-minute investment is paying off by providing a day-long, fresh mouth.

[emotional rescue]

Thank you very much for the comments, Searching.

You are a very good person.

Best wishes

[chubbygirl]

hi searching, so you only use the waterpik once a day?

do you do it first thing in the morning, or after you have breakfast? sorry if the question sounds dumb, but im trying to figure out a good daily routine. from waking until bedtime.

also, how often do you brush and floss? after every meal? (im thinking since i eat 6 times a day <meals plus midday snacks>, i should be brushing and flossing 6 times!)

do you also use a mouthwash or some sort of homemade mouthrinse?
i feel naked when i don't. hehe

[searching]

Hello Chubbygirl,

[do] you only use the waterpik once a day?

Yes, once in the morning after first brushing & flossing.

do you do it first thing in the morning, or after you have breakfast?

Sometimes before, sometimes after breakfast.

how often do you brush and floss? after every meal?

I brush & floss twice daily, once after waking & once before bed.

do you also use a mouthwash or some sort of homemade mouthrinse?

No, I do not use mouthwash.

[mike987]

So this is pretty effective for you then?

This is what I'm looking for.. an honest, solid, no bullshit, no witches brew of a positive experience that might help us out.

I'm not sure if this would be effective for me, because I think it's a bacterial problem in the digestive tract, but .. well, I'm sure it could help.


I have a hard time believing the biofilm doesn't come back immediately though. Do you also have PND?

[searching]

So this is pretty effective for you then?

I'm not sure if this would be effective for me, because I think it's a bacterial problem in the digestive tract

I have a hard time believing the biofilm doesn't come back immediately though. Do you also have PND?

Hello mike987,

First, let me say that my motivation is to help anyone with my type of condition. This method works for me, no BS.

I have some PND. I imagine most people do.

Yours may be a bacterial problem in the digestive tract. I have no way of knowing.

Please consider this question:
Why do people brush their teeth rather than simply swishing water in their mouths?
Answer: Because the full-contact, mechanical shear-stress of tooth brushing is more-effective at disrupting and dislodging biofilms versus [only] flowing water over the biofilm. I suppose this is why scrub-brushes, sponges, and wash cloths are used in effective, cleaning processes rather than sending water-only rinses over surfaces.

One can clearly observe this in, for example, washing dishes or an automobile. Compare the results of using a sponge/washcloth, versus water-spray only. There is a clear difference in the effectiveness.

The oral irrigation that uses the jet-tip, followed by the small and large brush tips. is far more-effective at physically contacting, and mechanically dislodging the biofilm, versus a mild, water-rinsing. I use the brush-tips to contact, dislodge, and flush away much more of the biofilm (on teeth, between teeth, on gums, on tongue) versus tooth brushing alone. This may be an indication that my tooth-brushing skills or equipment are poor, I accept that. My experience has been that the oral irrigation successfully finishes the job that was left unfinished by tooth-brushing alone, precisely because the brush-tips effectively-contact, and remove, a larger fraction of the biofilm.

During the morning course of three (3), serial irrigations, with this series of irrigation tips, carefully contacting and flushing all surfaces - the condition of my mouth changes dramatically, for the better.

[waitingforrelief]

hi searching and everyone.

i just received my oral irrigator - the same kind that searching uses. i went through the routine that searching described. even used almost 5 tanks of water. and i could still smell an odor from my mouth within minutes after the whole routine.
(colgate total included)

my mouth felt temporarily fresher afterward the irrigation. (about 3+tanks) i had felt my teeth and gums to be cleaner, but not the tongue (even though i had also used a tongue scraper). so i went back to do more and use the different attacments on my tongue as well. but again, the freshness was short-lived.

have i just thrown more money down the drain again?

for those of you whom this worked for you. how long did it take to see results? am i being unrealistic to expect a difference after the first time? i remember searching saying he noticed that his bb was gone within days.what about after the first couple times of use?

i know i should be more patient and just wait to see how it goes. but ive been very anxious about my bb lately. and have been going through a phase of really wanting to fix it. so now that there's a slight glimmer of hope of a new-ish solution, i'm kind of going through a type of emotional roller-coaster between hope and desperation. so hopefully i can get some responses... thanks.

[searching]

for those of you whom this worked for you. how long did it take to see results?

Hello waitingforrelief,

It's been years since I began using the irrigator. Signs of an improvement were apparent within the first few times I used it, and the duration of improvement increased as my teeth and gums returned to health. I felt my gums convert from an unhealthy-sponginess to a tight, firm, and pink condition.

The overall transformation did not happen in one application; however, the results did steadily improve and persist with use.

The tongue scraper tool did not work for me. Instead I [gently] use the large brush with the white handle.

[mike987]

hi searching and everyone.

i just received my oral irrigator - the same kind that searching uses. i went through the routine that searching described. even used almost 5 tanks of water. and i could still smell an odor from my mouth within minutes after the whole routine.
(colgate total included)

my mouth felt temporarily fresher afterward the irrigation. (about 3+tanks) i had felt my teeth and gums to be cleaner, but not the tongue (even though i had also used a tongue scraper). so i went back to do more and use the different attacments on my tongue as well. but again, the freshness was short-lived.

have i just thrown more money down the drain again?

for those of you whom this worked for you. how long did it take to see results? am i being unrealistic to expect a difference after the first time? i remember searching saying he noticed that his bb was gone within days.what about after the first couple times of use?

i know i should be more patient and just wait to see how it goes. but ive been very anxious about my bb lately. and have been going through a phase of really wanting to fix it. so now that there's a slight glimmer of hope of a new-ish solution, i'm kind of going through a type of emotional roller-coaster between hope and desperation. so hopefully i can get some responses... thanks.

I wouldn't say you threw your money away. If it's more effective than regular flossing, that's almost worth it.

I'm considering ordering one of these. they're like 150bucks here though. It'd probably be cheaper if I ordered it in the US and had my pops send it to me.

So no opinions on the more portable version?



Oh man, if you combined the irrigator with hydrogen peroxide, after you did the 30minute Baking Soda gargle (a la californication's thread), AND brushed your teeth with baking soda toothpaste, your breath would just have to be fantastic..

Then again, I should already have fantastic breath for my oral obsession but I don't. What gives?

Anyway, I wanna keep hearing about what's working for people.


searching, thanks for your detailed information! So yes, even though I think my BB is intestinal related, I still have all the evidence of oral BB, whether that's caused by the intestinal part or not. Bio film, teeth plague up pretty quickly, etc etc.