has anyone considered burning off your circumvallate papilla? (the red dots that are at the back of your tongue) either by a professional or by yourself
i have always said it is the middle part of my tongue that smells but it is probably more 75% towards the back. it is where those little dots meet where the odour builds up. the very back where you can see the bumps has no odour whatsoever, which is why i am sure it is not PND. i would say about 5-10% of tongue gets any noticable odour on it when i wipe it with my finger, and it is always in the same place
is it a feasible option to burn those red dots off your tongue? i am at a complete loss and anything is worth a try
burning off my circumvallate papilla?
thanks. i even made a post in that thread so i should have remembered itLarc400 wrote:viewtopic.php?t=3570
so basically there is no cure for this type of BB? thats nice
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halitosisux
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Danger have you ever checked the roof of your mouth or tried to clean it with some chlorhexidine. The roof of the mouth is important to clean apparently, as too are the cheeks. Its just strange how your odour on your tongue can be so localised and defined and not where odours typically build up on a tongue.
i have not tried to use chlorhexdine. i have checked all around my mouth and the only point where i have detected noticable odour since i got those wisdom teeth out is this small part of my tongue. i may have had this odour on my tongue sometimes for years but just never noticed until i become aware of my breath.halitosisux wrote:Danger have you ever checked the roof of your mouth or tried to clean it with some chlorhexidine. The roof of the mouth is important to clean apparently, as too are the cheeks. Its just strange how your odour on your tongue can be so localised and defined and not where odours typically build up on a tongue.
i just think it is the way my tongue is structured. this odour is at its most noticable after i wake up so this is why i dont think it is any deep medical reason. as soon as i woke up this morning the first thing i did was check that small part of my tongue just in front of the v shape and i got an odour. the other parts of my tongue never had much, if any, noticable odour.
i cant always detect an odour on this part of my tongue. it seems to vary throughout the day. but it is nearly always at its worst when i wake up. which is why i have come to the conclusion it is just unluckily a part of my mouth that is prone to get odourous when certain things happen like dry mouth, something i have eaten etc
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halitosisux
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Danger I think this V area is prone to get odourous for most people during sleep or when the mouth gets dry etc. That V area is pretty much the epicentre of odour for most people because that's where tongue coatings tend to be the thickest and its also roughly where mucus drainage from the back of the nose is likely to pool and exacerbate the situation.
but you said in an earlier post in this thread that it is not an area of the tongue where odour usually builds up?halitosisux wrote:Danger I think this V area is prone to get odourous for most people during sleep or when the mouth gets dry etc. That V area is pretty much the epicentre of odour for most people because that's where tongue coatings tend to be the thickest and its also roughly where mucus drainage from the back of the nose is likely to pool and exacerbate the situation.
every time i see an article about cleaning the tongue they always mention the very back of the tongue, where i get no odour
and going back to my wisdom tooth. i dont know when my wisdom teeth came through because i never really took any notice, but do you think it is possible it was causing my breath to stink as it was trying to come through? because from what i remember i got told my breath stank probably for a few weeks before i started noticing a really bad taste from that area
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halitosisux
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Danger, sorry for the confusion. From your past descriptions you made it sound like your odour was mainly present about half way along your tongue in the centre. But for most people its where the papillae (and coating) are the thickest which is usually in the area around that V and beyond. And if this is where yours is appearing then this is in line with what most people also experience. In my case my odour used to get so bad my whole mouth would become infested with the odour and it wouldnt matter where I rubbed on my tongue, it would smell. As a result of this my saliva also smelled very strongly.
As we've said before, we could speculate all day long whether you still have BB based on odours you can still detect on your tongue.
It is normal to have some odour on your tongue and also for your saliva to smell. I know this for a fact because I have smelled the saliva of a person who does not normally have BB and most definitely did not have BB at the time and yet their saliva smelled when I got a chance to smell it.
We all have bacteria in our mouth and these bacteria will always produce a certain amount of odourous chemicals. This amount results in what is known as the background odour and for people without BB this results in a level on their breath which is below the cognitive threshold. But that doesnt mean to say if you smell the saliva from this BB free person or rub their tongue you wont smell anything. That's because these odours are concentrated on the tongue and normally you'd never even know they were there unless you had reason to worry or you were made aware of this in some way, and just because you have some odour on your tongue that doesnt mean to say it's making your breath smell bad. Chemicals all have unique volatility characteristics and what might smell on your finger might be completely undetectable from a few inches away and some chemicals might not smell much on the end of your finger but you'll be able to smell them from feet away.
If there were only a few weeks between being told your breath stank and the onset of your bad taste around the area of your wisdom tooth, I think there's a very high chance your breath no longer smells having dealt with the tooth. But because you've been made conscious of these (normal) low levels of concentrated odour on your tongue, you are finding it impossibly difficult to stop obsessing over it.
I saw a video quite recently where people were randomly picked in the street and asked to scrape their tongue and smell the odour and they were all able to detect some odour. So does that mean that everyone who can detect odour in this way has BB? The only way you can find out whether your tongue odour is resulting in bad breath is to test your breath on someone you trust. This is really hard I know, but there are lots of ways you can make this easier and more indirect. If you cant bring yourself to ask someone, just figure out a way spend some time where you have to get close to someone for 30 mins or so, reading a book or looking at photos etc. If your breath smells they'll do whatever they have to do to get themselves away from being directly hit by your breath. If your breath doesnt smell they'll be happy to sit close to you during this time. Do this a few times with different people and you'll know where you stand.
As we've said before, we could speculate all day long whether you still have BB based on odours you can still detect on your tongue.
It is normal to have some odour on your tongue and also for your saliva to smell. I know this for a fact because I have smelled the saliva of a person who does not normally have BB and most definitely did not have BB at the time and yet their saliva smelled when I got a chance to smell it.
We all have bacteria in our mouth and these bacteria will always produce a certain amount of odourous chemicals. This amount results in what is known as the background odour and for people without BB this results in a level on their breath which is below the cognitive threshold. But that doesnt mean to say if you smell the saliva from this BB free person or rub their tongue you wont smell anything. That's because these odours are concentrated on the tongue and normally you'd never even know they were there unless you had reason to worry or you were made aware of this in some way, and just because you have some odour on your tongue that doesnt mean to say it's making your breath smell bad. Chemicals all have unique volatility characteristics and what might smell on your finger might be completely undetectable from a few inches away and some chemicals might not smell much on the end of your finger but you'll be able to smell them from feet away.
If there were only a few weeks between being told your breath stank and the onset of your bad taste around the area of your wisdom tooth, I think there's a very high chance your breath no longer smells having dealt with the tooth. But because you've been made conscious of these (normal) low levels of concentrated odour on your tongue, you are finding it impossibly difficult to stop obsessing over it.
I saw a video quite recently where people were randomly picked in the street and asked to scrape their tongue and smell the odour and they were all able to detect some odour. So does that mean that everyone who can detect odour in this way has BB? The only way you can find out whether your tongue odour is resulting in bad breath is to test your breath on someone you trust. This is really hard I know, but there are lots of ways you can make this easier and more indirect. If you cant bring yourself to ask someone, just figure out a way spend some time where you have to get close to someone for 30 mins or so, reading a book or looking at photos etc. If your breath smells they'll do whatever they have to do to get themselves away from being directly hit by your breath. If your breath doesnt smell they'll be happy to sit close to you during this time. Do this a few times with different people and you'll know where you stand.
Re: burning off my circumvallate papilla?
Hello...danger wrote:has anyone considered burning off your circumvallate papilla? (the red dots that are at the back of your tongue) either by a professional or by yourself
I can not understand much because you are determined to focus on language as responsible for your halitosis.Si you want to have a red tongue coating is free I'll give the best solution.
Just make mouthwash for a week with 875/125 Augmentin (amoxicillin clavulanate 875 mg + 125 mg) and see how your tongue is free of coating, but still have the language halitosis.En not the problem ...
If you decide to do the treatment, only you must do after each brushing and rinsing using this antibiotic, the antibioticyou have to to keep doing gargle for 1 minute and then spit it out ...
And to tell us how you are doing, but do not flatter yourself, is not your original problem is periodontal or gum ...
A greeting and good luck ...
Text translated from Spanish to English ...
hihalitosisux wrote:Danger, sorry for the confusion. From your past descriptions you made it sound like your odour was mainly present about half way along your tongue in the centre. But for most people its where the papillae (and coating) are the thickest which is usually in the area around that V and beyond. And if this is where yours is appearing then this is in line with what most people also experience. In my case my odour used to get so bad my whole mouth would become infested with the odour and it wouldnt matter where I rubbed on my tongue, it would smell. As a result of this my saliva also smelled very strongly.
As we've said before, we could speculate all day long whether you still have BB based on odours you can still detect on your tongue.
It is normal to have some odour on your tongue and also for your saliva to smell. I know this for a fact because I have smelled the saliva of a person who does not normally have BB and most definitely did not have BB at the time and yet their saliva smelled when I got a chance to smell it.
We all have bacteria in our mouth and these bacteria will always produce a certain amount of odourous chemicals. This amount results in what is known as the background odour and for people without BB this results in a level on their breath which is below the cognitive threshold. But that doesnt mean to say if you smell the saliva from this BB free person or rub their tongue you wont smell anything. That's because these odours are concentrated on the tongue and normally you'd never even know they were there unless you had reason to worry or you were made aware of this in some way, and just because you have some odour on your tongue that doesnt mean to say it's making your breath smell bad. Chemicals all have unique volatility characteristics and what might smell on your finger might be completely undetectable from a few inches away and some chemicals might not smell much on the end of your finger but you'll be able to smell them from feet away.
If there were only a few weeks between being told your breath stank and the onset of your bad taste around the area of your wisdom tooth, I think there's a very high chance your breath no longer smells having dealt with the tooth. But because you've been made conscious of these (normal) low levels of concentrated odour on your tongue, you are finding it impossibly difficult to stop obsessing over it.
I saw a video quite recently where people were randomly picked in the street and asked to scrape their tongue and smell the odour and they were all able to detect some odour. So does that mean that everyone who can detect odour in this way has BB? The only way you can find out whether your tongue odour is resulting in bad breath is to test your breath on someone you trust. This is really hard I know, but there are lots of ways you can make this easier and more indirect. If you cant bring yourself to ask someone, just figure out a way spend some time where you have to get close to someone for 30 mins or so, reading a book or looking at photos etc. If your breath smells they'll do whatever they have to do to get themselves away from being directly hit by your breath. If your breath doesnt smell they'll be happy to sit close to you during this time. Do this a few times with different people and you'll know where you stand.
yes, i have always described my odour as being in the middle of my tongue. i think i described it as that because it was not right at the back where it is for alot of people. but on closer inspection of my tongue and of pics of how tongues are supposed to look on the internet, it is probably about 75% back on my tongue, where that v shape is
ha, how did you go about asking to smell somebody's tongue and saliva? did you ask them if you could. i really wish i could ask somebody i know who does not have bad breath to do that. i am often wondering if people's tongue have some odour on it when i know their breath is ok
about my wisdom tooth. it was weird. one possible reason which i have often wondered was when the tooth was trying to push its way out(which may have been when my breath was at its worst) it was releasing an odour that gave me bad breath. but once the impacted tooth was settled at the back of my mouth it may have left me with a rotten taste but my breath may not have been as bad. it is very confusing
was this the video you saw about people's tongues smelling?
http://www.channel4embarrassingillnesse ... ck-tongue/
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halitosisux
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Danger, my brother knows all about my BB nightmare. He's the only non-medical person who does and he is the person who made me become so aware of my problem from the start and we've spoken openly about it throughout. I've never been able to detect BB on him and this was vital help for me over the years in comparing such things as my saliva odour and tongue coatings etc to a person without BB.
Actually, I also used a method using brand new pens to secretly collect saliva samples from a small number of work colleagues (who dont have BB). Out of every saliva sample I have been able to obtain, every single one had odour if I let the saliva dry on my own skin. I've done the same with my nephews who normally dont have BB (they do if they go one day without brushing their teeth though, but otherwise there's never a hint of BB).
I know if my brother does the lick test, he says he can smell his saliva. He has a normal looking tongue with slight coating at the back. My tongue is also normal looking and always has been.
I always find that its people who have no idea that their breath smells and who obviously cant smell anything bad, who have the worst breath. I honestly believe that in type-1 only cases where there are no dental problems but where the person is perceiving some bad taste and mild odour on the tongue, does not have BB odour anywhere near as badly as they think they do. Once someone has told us our breath smells - and we believe it, its like the beginning of an awareness and a phobia which is almost impossible to release from on your own.
I think it's when you have dental problems or problems in the nose, lungs or throat, when breath can really begin to smell strongly. Of course, certain bloodborne causes due to systemic or digestive problems can do the same thing, but its unlikely that these will lead only to a type-1 BB, there'll be other BB types involved.
Yes, that's the video I saw a few months ago. I did some further searches after I saw that and it mostly confirmed that its normal for everyone to detect some odour at the very back of the tongue, expecially after things have stagnated and which will linger until things get moving.
Actually, I also used a method using brand new pens to secretly collect saliva samples from a small number of work colleagues (who dont have BB). Out of every saliva sample I have been able to obtain, every single one had odour if I let the saliva dry on my own skin. I've done the same with my nephews who normally dont have BB (they do if they go one day without brushing their teeth though, but otherwise there's never a hint of BB).
I know if my brother does the lick test, he says he can smell his saliva. He has a normal looking tongue with slight coating at the back. My tongue is also normal looking and always has been.
I always find that its people who have no idea that their breath smells and who obviously cant smell anything bad, who have the worst breath. I honestly believe that in type-1 only cases where there are no dental problems but where the person is perceiving some bad taste and mild odour on the tongue, does not have BB odour anywhere near as badly as they think they do. Once someone has told us our breath smells - and we believe it, its like the beginning of an awareness and a phobia which is almost impossible to release from on your own.
I think it's when you have dental problems or problems in the nose, lungs or throat, when breath can really begin to smell strongly. Of course, certain bloodborne causes due to systemic or digestive problems can do the same thing, but its unlikely that these will lead only to a type-1 BB, there'll be other BB types involved.
Yes, that's the video I saw a few months ago. I did some further searches after I saw that and it mostly confirmed that its normal for everyone to detect some odour at the very back of the tongue, expecially after things have stagnated and which will linger until things get moving.
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halitosisux
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did you do the test with the pens when you still had BB? and how did you manage to secretly collect saliva samples and then let it dry on your own skin?i dont really understand that. but i am interested because this is something i would maybe like to try on peoplehalitosisux wrote:Danger, my brother knows all about my BB nightmare. He's the only non-medical person who does and he is the person who made me become so aware of my problem from the start and we've spoken openly about it throughout. I've never been able to detect BB on him and this was vital help for me over the years in comparing such things as my saliva odour and tongue coatings etc to a person without BB.
Actually, I also used a method using brand new pens to secretly collect saliva samples from a small number of work colleagues (who dont have BB). Out of every saliva sample I have been able to obtain, every single one had odour if I let the saliva dry on my own skin. I've done the same with my nephews who normally dont have BB (they do if they go one day without brushing their teeth though, but otherwise there's never a hint of BB).
I know if my brother does the lick test, he says he can smell his saliva. He has a normal looking tongue with slight coating at the back. My tongue is also normal looking and always has been.
I always find that its people who have no idea that their breath smells and who obviously cant smell anything bad, who have the worst breath. I honestly believe that in type-1 only cases where there are no dental problems but where the person is perceiving some bad taste and mild odour on the tongue, does not have BB odour anywhere near as badly as they think they do. Once someone has told us our breath smells - and we believe it, its like the beginning of an awareness and a phobia which is almost impossible to release from on your own.
I think it's when you have dental problems or problems in the nose, lungs or throat, when breath can really begin to smell strongly. Of course, certain bloodborne causes due to systemic or digestive problems can do the same thing, but its unlikely that these will lead only to a type-1 BB, there'll be other BB types involved.
Yes, that's the video I saw a few months ago. I did some further searches after I saw that and it mostly confirmed that its normal for everyone to detect some odour at the very back of the tongue, expecially after things have stagnated and which will linger until things get moving.
i also remember you saying that your mother always had a bit of BB but that disappeared after she got all her teeth out. do you think if somebody got all their teeth out they would still have some normal odour on their tongues? and this normal odour only turns into something more serious when there is a dental problem for example
and i agree about that guy in the video being clueless. when he said remember to brush your tongue it really pissed me off
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halitosisux
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Yes I did the test with the pens when I still had BB. It's at least 15 years ago when I did this and before I had my tonsils out. I'd give them a new disposable pen without them knowing. We went through tons of pens because of hygiene issues and because the pens were a type that had a hole in the top and if you put them in your mouth for a while saliva used to dribble through the hole and into the stem. This gave me the idea to obtain samples, which I'd sneak off with if I had the chance to do so and test their saliva on my wrist. Over time I managed to sample about 8 different people with this method.
My mum always had quite bad BB. From as far back as I can remember, her teeth were never in very good condition, and she didnt look after them very well, she just didnt care and didnt have time for such things. A few years ago they became so bad she had them all out in one go. Since then she's never had BB.
I think for some people there are various ecological determinants that lead to them having more "background" odour than others. These people would then be more susceptible to being tipped over the cognitive threshold of odour perception. They end up being more susceptible to having morning breath, to dehydration and to minor issues with their teeth or gums for example.
The genetically determined depth of tongue papillae, protein levels in the saliva, chemical reasons such as high or low pH, individual immune system components, are all possible examples of such ecological determinants. The combination of all these various factors will determine our bacterial profile and this may also be part of the mechanism which determines our background odour levels and thus the degree of odour that is produced when things do go wrong.
That guy pissed me off when he said "not brushing your teeth well enough is often to blame for bacteria spreading in the mouth"
Does he mean that more bacteria/more species of bacteria will spread in the mouth? If not then what in the hell does he mean?
My mum always had quite bad BB. From as far back as I can remember, her teeth were never in very good condition, and she didnt look after them very well, she just didnt care and didnt have time for such things. A few years ago they became so bad she had them all out in one go. Since then she's never had BB.
I think for some people there are various ecological determinants that lead to them having more "background" odour than others. These people would then be more susceptible to being tipped over the cognitive threshold of odour perception. They end up being more susceptible to having morning breath, to dehydration and to minor issues with their teeth or gums for example.
The genetically determined depth of tongue papillae, protein levels in the saliva, chemical reasons such as high or low pH, individual immune system components, are all possible examples of such ecological determinants. The combination of all these various factors will determine our bacterial profile and this may also be part of the mechanism which determines our background odour levels and thus the degree of odour that is produced when things do go wrong.
That guy pissed me off when he said "not brushing your teeth well enough is often to blame for bacteria spreading in the mouth"
Does he mean that more bacteria/more species of bacteria will spread in the mouth? If not then what in the hell does he mean?
ha, amazing some of the things we do.halitosisux wrote:Yes I did the test with the pens when I still had BB. It's at least 15 years ago when I did this and before I had my tonsils out. I'd give them a new disposable pen without them knowing. We went through tons of pens because of hygiene issues and because the pens were a type that had a hole in the top and if you put them in your mouth for a while saliva used to dribble through the hole and into the stem. This gave me the idea to obtain samples, which I'd sneak off with if I had the chance to do so and test their saliva on my wrist. Over time I managed to sample about 8 different people with this method.
My mum always had quite bad BB. From as far back as I can remember, her teeth were never in very good condition, and she didnt look after them very well, she just didnt care and didnt have time for such things. A few years ago they became so bad she had them all out in one go. Since then she's never had BB.
I think for some people there are various ecological determinants that lead to them having more "background" odour than others. These people would then be more susceptible to being tipped over the cognitive threshold of odour perception. They end up being more susceptible to having morning breath, to dehydration and to minor issues with their teeth or gums for example.
The genetically determined depth of tongue papillae, protein levels in the saliva, chemical reasons such as high or low pH, individual immune system components, are all possible examples of such ecological determinants. The combination of all these various factors will determine our bacterial profile and this may also be part of the mechanism which determines our background odour levels and thus the degree of odour that is produced when things do go wrong.
That guy pissed me off when he said "not brushing your teeth well enough is often to blame for bacteria spreading in the mouth"
Does he mean that more bacteria/more species of bacteria will spread in the mouth? If not then what in the hell does he mean?
so you had a job when your BB was at its worst? did you notice reactions when you spoke closely to people? i know you have said that you learnt ways to disguise but were there times when you noticed comments or reactions? and are you in the same job now, and if so, have you noticed any difference in the way people treat you since your BB went?
i still cant notice any odour in my saliva if i just spit a bit out on my finger/hand and let it dry. i may get a very light odour the odd time but nowhere near like if i get a bit of saliva from my tongue and let that dry
i was going to start a thread a while back that if, for normal people, would simply brushing their teeth give them fresh breath. i suppose how you describe your nephews answers that. i have wondered that if somebody whose breath is ok doesnt brush their teeth for a couple of days it wouldnt make that much difference once they are up and have eaten etc. but it is odd how your nephews have to brush their teeth or their breath would smell that day
if it was my wisdom tooth that was causing my bad breath, it now has me a bit concerned that i have a mouth that is suspectable to BB. and that just a minor issue with my gums or teeth could give me horrendous breath. dont everyone get at least minor issues with their teeth and gums throughout their life?