Subclinic tmau
Aydinmur, I have choline tablets left over. I will try and let you know the results starting today. I have taken metronidazole and had no effect on my breath. I believe there is a slight chance I have imaginary bad breath because of all the ways I have asked if anybody smells my breath. Everybody says no. Do you have any patients who have imaginary bad breath? Is it common?
I think I have something else going on as well as TMAU.
Neither Neomycin nor Metronidazole reduced my odour at all - not even for a moment. Absolutely minimal choline intake will only very marginally reduce my odour and only if I take high doses of B2/riboflavin in conjunction with it.
I did Oral chroma in Amsterdam before my TMAU diagnosis and the main gas in my mouth was methylmercaptan. The dentist said i smelt of rotten eggs from my mouth but, at that time, I had no nasal odour (or other body odour) that she could comment on.
Neither Neomycin nor Metronidazole reduced my odour at all - not even for a moment. Absolutely minimal choline intake will only very marginally reduce my odour and only if I take high doses of B2/riboflavin in conjunction with it.
I did Oral chroma in Amsterdam before my TMAU diagnosis and the main gas in my mouth was methylmercaptan. The dentist said i smelt of rotten eggs from my mouth but, at that time, I had no nasal odour (or other body odour) that she could comment on.
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halitosisux
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Methylmercaptan (CH3SH) signifies that I smell of sxxx.
It was the highest volatile sulphur compound found in my oral cavity
They also measured Hydrogen Sulphide H2S and Dimethyl Sulfide CH32S and hydrogen sulfide was also above normal threshold levels.
However, overall, the test was not very useful as the results were very low compared to the actual level of odour produced. As you know, TMAU is intermittent in some people.
It was the highest volatile sulphur compound found in my oral cavity
They also measured Hydrogen Sulphide H2S and Dimethyl Sulfide CH32S and hydrogen sulfide was also above normal threshold levels.
However, overall, the test was not very useful as the results were very low compared to the actual level of odour produced. As you know, TMAU is intermittent in some people.
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Music Lady
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Malory can I ask you a question, I was reading on another board and above where you said vit B2 was not making much of a difference in your odor at all. Neither the low choline diet.
You tested positive for TMAU right? And you only have bad breath?
I spent the entire night browsing TMAU boards and its amazing how some people are affected differently by it.
Could you ask the folks at the place where you tested at why none of these are making a difference for you? Could they offer any explanations as to what else in addition to TMAU might be going on with you??
It must be frustrating to have a diagnosis and still be at square one. Whereas many of us are still searching.
You tested positive for TMAU right? And you only have bad breath?
I spent the entire night browsing TMAU boards and its amazing how some people are affected differently by it.
Could you ask the folks at the place where you tested at why none of these are making a difference for you? Could they offer any explanations as to what else in addition to TMAU might be going on with you??
It must be frustrating to have a diagnosis and still be at square one. Whereas many of us are still searching.
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halitosisux
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Malory, yes I kinda had an idea what Methylmercaptan might do to you. But my question was about whether anyone could tell you what the levels of these chemcials actually meant and how they might relate to whatever it is that causes you to have too much TMA in your bloodstream and your bad breath in general.Music Lady,
I have learnt very little from my experiences with the TMAU expert who oversees our care in the UK and still feel, as you said, at square 1. Any other causes of odour besides TMAU are not even being considered at present by the medical profession. It all seems a bit hit and miss really. It's a case of trial and error and I try everything that people mention helped them.
The people who run/contribute to the 'odour' sites (Scientist 42 and others) are the experts I turn to for help and interpretation of results. What would we do without them?
I apparently am unable to oxidize the TMA efficiently if I do a choline load, which indicates TMAU type 1. However, subsequent tests after following the low choline diet and B2 showed a remarkable drop in my TMA levels (from 31 to 12) and almost normal oxidation of the TMA. No improvement in odour accompanied this fabulous result though!!
I am confused about the extent of my body odour and if it is merely mild/intermittent when I am not menstruating. The breath is definitely the main source of my odour and this is constant. The few days before menstruation, my breath is unbearable for others and my whole body seems to cause offence.
Hal,
Nobody so far has interpreted the results of the gas chromatography I did in Amsterdam. Perhaps Dr Aydinmur might know. I just read his posts in this thread and he touches on this.
I have learnt very little from my experiences with the TMAU expert who oversees our care in the UK and still feel, as you said, at square 1. Any other causes of odour besides TMAU are not even being considered at present by the medical profession. It all seems a bit hit and miss really. It's a case of trial and error and I try everything that people mention helped them.
The people who run/contribute to the 'odour' sites (Scientist 42 and others) are the experts I turn to for help and interpretation of results. What would we do without them?
I apparently am unable to oxidize the TMA efficiently if I do a choline load, which indicates TMAU type 1. However, subsequent tests after following the low choline diet and B2 showed a remarkable drop in my TMA levels (from 31 to 12) and almost normal oxidation of the TMA. No improvement in odour accompanied this fabulous result though!!
I am confused about the extent of my body odour and if it is merely mild/intermittent when I am not menstruating. The breath is definitely the main source of my odour and this is constant. The few days before menstruation, my breath is unbearable for others and my whole body seems to cause offence.
Hal,
Nobody so far has interpreted the results of the gas chromatography I did in Amsterdam. Perhaps Dr Aydinmur might know. I just read his posts in this thread and he touches on this.
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halitosisux
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It's a shame there isn't a trimethylamine breath level meter that people could use to find out what the actual levels are in the breath. Levels in the breath might not directly correlate with levels in the blood. If you had feedback you could probably be a lot more effective at working to reduce the levels through known reduction methods, instead of having to work so blindly on what is known to generally help.
Maybe your breath odour is in some way related to whatever it is that causes you to have elevated TMA, but that it's not TMA causing your odour but some other chemical.
It was interesting what Aydinmur said recently, about how having TMAU can affect other chemicals in the mouth.
Maybe your breath odour is in some way related to whatever it is that causes you to have elevated TMA, but that it's not TMA causing your odour but some other chemical.
It was interesting what Aydinmur said recently, about how having TMAU can affect other chemicals in the mouth.
Dr Aydinmur, thanks so much for your interest.
Oct 2010 test (after a choline load/more or less my previous, healthy, vegetarian diet):
TMA 31.9* umol/mmol creat (reference range 2.5 -10.
TMA-n-oxide 40 umol/mmol creat (17 - 147)
TMA/TMA-n-oxide 0.80* (0.05-0.21)
urine creatinine 7.3 mmol/L
January 2011 (after 3 or 4 months of low choline diet and B2 but test taken during menstruation):
TMA 12* umol/mmol creat (2.5-10.
TMA-n-oxide 43.3 umol/mmol creat (17-147)
TMA/TMA-n-oxide 0.28* (0.05-0.21)
urine creatinine 3 mmol/L
July 2011 (after 8 months of low choline diet and B2, ozonetherapy in March):
TMA 12.9* umol/mmol creat (2.5-10.
TMA-n-oxide 102.4 umol/mmol creat (17-147)
TMA/TMA-n-oxide 0.13 (0.05-0.21)
urine creatinine 1.7 mmol/L
Please feel free to comment on these results if you wish
thanks,Malory
Oct 2010 test (after a choline load/more or less my previous, healthy, vegetarian diet):
TMA 31.9* umol/mmol creat (reference range 2.5 -10.
TMA-n-oxide 40 umol/mmol creat (17 - 147)
TMA/TMA-n-oxide 0.80* (0.05-0.21)
urine creatinine 7.3 mmol/L
January 2011 (after 3 or 4 months of low choline diet and B2 but test taken during menstruation):
TMA 12* umol/mmol creat (2.5-10.
TMA-n-oxide 43.3 umol/mmol creat (17-147)
TMA/TMA-n-oxide 0.28* (0.05-0.21)
urine creatinine 3 mmol/L
July 2011 (after 8 months of low choline diet and B2, ozonetherapy in March):
TMA 12.9* umol/mmol creat (2.5-10.
TMA-n-oxide 102.4 umol/mmol creat (17-147)
TMA/TMA-n-oxide 0.13 (0.05-0.21)
urine creatinine 1.7 mmol/L
Please feel free to comment on these results if you wish
thanks,Malory
Age: 44
Sex: female
Weight: 54kg
No significant disease but odour since 15 years ago.
Breath odour dominant but also body odour present in more recent years plus odorous urine occasionally.
Fecal odour mainly or rotten egg. Other odours have been present at intervals. These have been described as rotten blood, rotten fish and ammonia.
Unaware of the odour stopping suddenly,
I took Neomycin for 2 weeks but this did not affect the odour at all.
No current medication apart from restricted choline intake and probiotics and vitamins/supplements: calcium, chlorella or multivitamin 'Multibionta' , super digestive enzymes and B2/riboflavin.
Other symptoms: coated tongue, night-sweats, post nasal drip, lethargy.
Sex: female
Weight: 54kg
No significant disease but odour since 15 years ago.
Breath odour dominant but also body odour present in more recent years plus odorous urine occasionally.
Fecal odour mainly or rotten egg. Other odours have been present at intervals. These have been described as rotten blood, rotten fish and ammonia.
Unaware of the odour stopping suddenly,
I took Neomycin for 2 weeks but this did not affect the odour at all.
No current medication apart from restricted choline intake and probiotics and vitamins/supplements: calcium, chlorella or multivitamin 'Multibionta' , super digestive enzymes and B2/riboflavin.
Other symptoms: coated tongue, night-sweats, post nasal drip, lethargy.
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halitosisux
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Sadmum ,if you are doing the choline load for tmau testing,another recommended brand is 'Douglas laboratories' . I've also seen tmau members recommend lecithin tablets during the load , but i don't know much about it really . probably most important to get the right milligrams from a reputable supplement company and you're good .sadmum wrote:Does anyone know where I can purchase the 'GNC brand' Choline tablets? As the gnc website doesn't sell to Australian customers! Is there another brand that anyone recommends?
Thanks.
i don't know why docs or labs don't supply the choline tablets. Because 1000s of us all end up with a huge bottle of choline afterwords forever ,then read that someone else needs some asap!.funny. If I could ship mine to you in time,i would
@ Halitosisux....I've been to 5 different health stores but none had it! Luckly though I was able to find it online.
@ deebo....Thank you, that's very sweet of you, but I've just purchased one online, 'Nature's Way, Choline 500 mg, Bitartrate, 100 Tablets' hopefully it's the same as the GNC brand.
I'll let you all know how I go once I receive it and start taking it.
@ deebo....Thank you, that's very sweet of you, but I've just purchased one online, 'Nature's Way, Choline 500 mg, Bitartrate, 100 Tablets' hopefully it's the same as the GNC brand.
I'll let you all know how I go once I receive it and start taking it.