A different case of halitosis?

[Albertus41]

Hi, my name is Albertus and I would like to know if someone shares my same problem.

I suffer from a type of halitosis, which is similar in some cases and different in others. When I get up in the morning my mouth feels dry and I feel my halitosis myself. It is an odor that I have noticed in other people, a fecal odor. Then I brush my teeth and here my halitosis begins. What happens to me is that my breath is always odorous, if I brush my teeth, from a meter away you can smell the toothpaste, if I use mouthwash it is its smell that is perceived.

If I have coffee or toast, or fruit, or almonds, whatever the taste is in my mouth, People can smell it from the outside just if I breath by nose normally. And if the taste is of a very intense food, it can last in my mouth, oropharynx and throat for more than an hour. Before all this happened, the taste lasted a few minutes.

I have read on this forum a guy who washes himself with oregano oil because his mouth stinks of all foods, like me, but if I use this oil only I smell oregano oil from a meter away, simply by breathing through my nose. I don't have a coating, I don't have gingivitis or periodontitis, I don't have tonsils, but I do have a hiatal hernia. At first I thought that was the problem, but I know people who have it and this does not happen to them.

I have practically no reflux, or at least I don't notice it, and I have never noticed my throat burn for the stomach acid. Helicobacter was diagnosed a long time ago, but I just cured and everything remains the same. If I eat, for example, chicken with potatoes, if you are next to me in a chair the two of you at a table, you will notice the smell of chicken coming out of my nose.

My breath always smells, either food, or fecal. I have noticed bad breath in people, if you get very close to them when they speak, but you cannot perceive it through the nose from so far away, nor do you smell what they have in their mouth or throat.

On the other hand, my stools smell very bad, and they are not dry, they are not soft, but not hard, and they leave a stain on the toilet bowl. The smell is indescribable, but it is not intense poop as I have noticed in a public bathroom once, they do not even smell like rotten eggs, it is another thing worse.

The fact is that I don't have abdominal pain, but I do have heavy digestions, bloating and gas.

These days I am taking peppermint to try to clean my stomach, I have noticed an improvement in the taste, but the problem is still there. I am on a specific diet against leaky gut based on bone broth, veggies with fiber, and probiotic products. Many months ago I stopped lactose and gluten and I want to start taking peppermint in capsules so that it reaches the intestine.

I feel fatigued, with rapid breathing, and I don't know if it is because of my stomach or something psychological. But I don't think that has to do with my halitosis or the fact that my food smells, because when people without halitosis have anxiety attacks and hyperventilate, they don't stink. You can have low halitosis in your mouth and if you breathe in a relaxed way no one will notice anything, and even if you speak while controlling your breath no one will notice it unless you are 20 cm face to face.

My problem is different, when a substance that has a taste passes through the back of my tongue and my throat, its smell comes out through my nose and the more intense the flavor, the more it smells. The flavor can last me a long time, even hours. If it is a neutral flavor like rice, it lasts much less, but I feel the bad taste until I smell the fecal odor. And when I wash with peroxide or baking soda, I have a fecal scent that comes from the back of my tongue and throat, even though I have no coating. I use special sticks to deeply clean that area.

Before trying cleaning mechanisms like tea tree oil, peroxide and bicarbonate, if I had a fruit, the sweet taste would turn sour, and if I took bread, it would become slow and last for a long time. Now the taste has improved, and I no longer smell sour or rancid, but I do smell that fecal odor that comes out of my mouth and nose and is perceived from a meter away.

Does anyone on this forum have this type of halitosis?

[mtr]

Hello there,

Are you by any chance mouth breathing while sleeping? Maybe you are a habitual mouth breather if you dont have a congested nose. This solely leads to dry mouth, meaning that there is not enough saliva in your mouth to wash out food, not only while you are asleep if you are a mouth breather a long time now.

Consider mouth taping, taking lots of fluids and a humidifier for your room on top of oral health routine.

[KL123]

if the food smells stays in your breath odor and your nose odor for a long time then consider yourself luck and chew a gum. That will give you a long last effect.

[searching_for_a_cure]

Hey there,

Your problem seems similar to mine. My GI doctor recently told me to try an anti-reflux and gastroparesis diet. Gastroparesis is basically a condition where your food stays in your stomach longer than it is supposed to and bb can be symptom of it. I can't eat chicken either bc the food smell seems like it takes forever to go away. I'm still trying to figure out what foods I can eat, but right now I am juicing fresh fruits and veggies and eating plain baked sweet potatoes, and baked butternut/acorn squash. I also plan on trying peptol bismol, devrom, and digestive enzymes. I just want to figure out something that works consistently or even cures the problem.

[mauricio]

op, you don't have a different type of bb, you literally have the textbook case of bb practically everyone in here has, problem is people fail to make the gut connection and think somehow throat/esophagus/tongue/tonsils/you-name-it are responsible for that, I was one of them too.
What you are experiencing are sulfate 'fumes', watch this: https://youtu.be/FY3HmKidbYQ

[Albertus41]

Hi everyone

It has been a long time since I wrote the first time explaining how my problem was. So, I thought nobody had the same symptoms and so, I have delayed long for the response.

Mauricio says my problem is the same everyone in here. However, after reading the forum I don't found anyone who had my symptoms.

searching_for_a_cure

I'm glad to know I'm not alone in the universe and it exists a person who happens like myself, even when it's eating. I wish I could be beside anyone although it is only five minutes while I'm eating a burger. I'm sure you understand me.
It exists three kinds of bb, buccal, buccal and nasal (both of them at a time), and an another that is the worst. When it not only you stink, but also whatever you eat it smells at the distance of a meter.

Kl123 says I would be a good idea If I chewed gum. If I did it, all around me would smell so much. It would be worst because the menta and acid perfumes will mix and the combination will be horrible. I have tested it.

Recently, I have been reading about various causes that can produce my bb. My bb started when I was 19 years. In those days I did various medical tests (throat, oesophagus, stomach, etc). It was when I found out I had hiatal hernia. A close friend recommended visiting a doctor who was an eminence of gastrointestinal's medicine. I told him my problem and he gave omeprazole fast as if he was absolutely convinced of the problem cause. Obviously, It was not effective.

In my opinion, GERD has acidified the superior digestive tube, making it most comfortable for bacterias who have multiplicated in our throat and mouth. I have never felt to burn my stomach or my throat, but I read a post talks about silent gastric reflux that can not produce symptoms. This guy said that e-Limonade had helped to eliminate his bb, but I have not tested yet. Another boy said that he was cured thanks to xylitol it's a kind of sugar that kill bacteria. Besides, I have seen a post talks about a similar thing with respect to what you tell me and he explains a way to clean his dirty stomach and the toxins. There will be to test it.

On the one hand, I read about some people are taking peroxide of magnesium for one o two months to clean gut, after this, they take enzymes and probiotics. The peroxide is been able to produce a lot of oxygen, killing bacterial overgrowth. It has no risk because it takes sportsman and you need not a medical prospect.

Besides, I want to try put peroxide in my mouth directly. This I already tested and savour in my mouth improved, but I confess I'm not happy and I let too soon. I want to do it for al least two o three months. Another thing that can help us is Zinc because it can absorb acid gases. This I'm testing now and I think it's effective, but savour in my mouth is bitter, even water has a bitter savour, and this it isn't nice. But I want to go on until the end.

Thanks to everyone to answer, I'll be posting information about my tests and advances.

Bye

[mauricio]

Have you researched into what I pointed out at all?
I wasted months on hiatal hernia!

However, after reading the forum I don't found anyone who had my symptoms.

I don't think you've done your reading properly then.

GERD has acidified the superior digestive tube, making it most comfortable for bacterias who have multiplicated in our throat and mouth.

LMAO.

[Albertus41]

There are people who stink from the mouth and others stink from the mouth and the nose too. Why?

There are people whose bb is more intensive than others. I know some people who have bb but it is perceptible only when you are very next to them. However, I know other people who stink a distance of one meter. In the former case, those persons cannot lead a normal life, in the latter yes they can.

I myself know a girl who has bb, but you only detect the smell if you get close to or if she breaths on your face. Why? Mauricio, How would you explain this?
I made a test in Barcelona that consisted of gas chromatography and they detected in my mouth various kinds of bacterias: Solobacterium, prevotella, among others. They told me Solobaterium is responsible for my bb and gave me antibiotics. I wonder how these bacterias have gotten to my mouth.
Mauricio thinks the problem is in the gut, but the only possibility that these bacterias can arrive from the gut to the mouth is due to an illness called intestinal permeability.

This pathology provokes pollution of the blood and there have been cases where it has found intestinal bacterias in the throat of a person or even in his o her mouth.

Basically, Mauricio thinks our body isn't able to metabolize sulfur and so it gets produced a bacterial overgrowth to that end, but if this was true, the sulfur odor would excrete from the lungs like when someone has eaten garlic, for example. In other words, if SIBO is guilty of our bb, why we have bacterias in the mouth if the place where the body absorbs sulfur is the gut?
I'm not a scientist, but I have read much in the time of my life and I have gotten to some conclusions.

I think the humans aren't prepared to digest the feeds we ingest nowadays because over our history the humans have suffered famine and we are not used to introducing into our bodies a lot of amount and variety of food. Today, most new illnesses are related to feeding, not only at the intestinal level but also in other pathologies such as Alzheimer, for example. In fact, some people think intestinal permeability is the big guilty most of them.

Most food we eat is bacterias' feed and this is why exists SIBO, Irritable bowel syndrome, and so on.
In my opinion, all people are affected by this. I think some people suffer in one way and others suffer in a different way. In other words, people's bodies react differently to bad feed.

In my opinion, my body isn't able to digest the feeds correctly and this has provoked a bacterial overgrowth. I know because I have always had a lot of gases and due to the aspect of my feces too. when I took peroxide of magnesium the flavor in my mouth improved and the appearance of my feces too.

Moreover, I have GERD and I have felt in my throat, but GERD didn't burn me. When the doctor made me test, he found in my saliva digestives residues although it was morning, there had eaten little and I had washed my mouth two hours before.

Why do we have bacterial overgrowth in the mouth? The bacterias develop and survive in an acid environment. In other words, a specific environment guarantees its survival. We offer them that environment since we have acid saliva.

In my particular case, I explained my problem in a forum for bb and a guy told me: "I have read that if you smell of the food while you are eating, the problem is in the stomach". A doctor who I had visited previously told me the same and he prescribed Omeprazole. This didn't work and I think all of us know why this medicine isn't efficacy. If you suffer GERD, in a lot of cases Omeprazole doesn't prevent that the stomach material rises up to the mouth.

We segregate clean saliva from the salivary glands, but this gets acidify. For me, the process is: 1) The saliva comes into contact with residues or mucus that comes from the stomach or the nostrils, among others. 2) The bacterias feed and excrete segregating a fluid acid. So, these bacterias are growing progressively producing more and more acid, contaminating our saliva. 3) The bacterias have gotten to colonize our mouth and even all our superior digestive system.

I agree with Claude Bernard who was Paster's close enemy. Paster thought if bacteria gets to your mouth, it will spread and colonize the environment. However, Bernard didn't think the same. For Bernard, a group of bacterias only could colonize the environment, if this was favorable to be colonized. If bacterias found a hostile environment, they will never survive. Finally, Paster accepted Bernard was right.

As soon as possible, I will post about a whole program to fight against bb from nose to gut. I want to keep on this routine at least Throughout the year.

In my country, there is a proverb that says, 'Patience is the mother of all science'. Constancy is the most important to overcome bb.

Pardon my bad English. All the very best to everyone!

[Albertus41]

I wish Mauricio gives me his opinion. How do you explain different kinds of halitosis? Why is it more intensive in some people than in others? In some cases, It is only noticed when you are very close to them, other times when you are a distance of a meter, why? Some people stink from the mouth and you notice when they are talking, others simply breathing from the nose. This is without including the different kinds of smells. when it considers it appropriate, I'm waiting for your answers.

Regards

[simple]

Hi Albertus41, how are you doing now? What diet and habits are you following?
(I know English is not your first language, so tell me if you don’t understand something.)
So, to answer your question: some bad cases of halitosis are caused by volatile sulfur compounds being excreted via lungs. The volatile sulfur compounds enter the bloodstream and then in the alveola the volatile sulfur compounds transfer from blood to the air that is breathed out. For example, if a person has leaky gut syndrome (intestinal permeability) the volatile sulfur compounds created during digestion by the action of bacteria permeate the gut wall and get in the blood, and from blood to lungs. There can be other causes for high volatile sulfur compounds to be present in the blood, for instance, kidney disease, liver disease and metabolic abnormalities (eg hypermethioninemia). Even faulty genes can cause it, such as SELENBP-1 mutation can cause breath that smells like dimethylsulfide or methanetiol.

Here’s research paper about different types of halitosis. It is in English though.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3412664/

Good luck!

I wish Mauricio gives me his opinion. How do you explain different kinds of halitosis? Why is it more intensive in some people than in others? In some cases, It is only noticed when you are very close to them, other times when you are a distance of a meter, why? Some people stink from the mouth and you notice when they are talking, others simply breathing from the nose. This is without including the different kinds of smells. when it considers it appropriate, I'm waiting for your answers.

Regards

[simple]

Hi Mauricio, thank you so much for sharing this!!! The sulfur metabolism issue, molybdenum deficiency due to glyphosate chelation, lead & mercury exposure all make sense!

Did you yourself eliminate the sulfur metabolism issue?

op, you don't have a different type of bb, you literally have the textbook case of bb practically everyone in here has, problem is people fail to make the gut connection and think somehow throat/esophagus/tongue/tonsils/you-name-it are responsible for that, I was one of them too.
What you are experiencing are sulfate 'fumes', watch this: https://youtu.be/FY3HmKidbYQ

[Albertus41]

Hi, simple

I stopped all of the proves and diets because I communicated with the halitosis' clinic where I tried to fix my problem last year. I have an appointment on 5 May in Barcelona and I hope they offer another alternative besides antibiotics.
On the other hand, I sincerely think if I had a problem with the liver I would be dead because I have this problem since 25 years ago. Moreover, If the volatile sulfur compounds transfer from blood to the air that is breathed out, I wouldn't smell my breath myself, but I can. I wouldn't notice the bad flavor in my mouth, but I can.
I think the problem is related to the digestive system because the doctor found in my mouth the same kind of bacteria that I have in the colon: Solobacterium morei, among others.
Anyway, I want to try all of the possibilities.
Thank you for writing, I don't know the reason but not many people participate in the halitosis forums.
If you or anybody don't understand something, let me know and I will try to write better the next time. For my part, I have understood you perfectly.

Regards.

[Emanuela hoxha]

Hello can you share the name pf this clinic with us so we can check it and see if it can help also us , and in this clinic you have only done test or you have bern taking also antibiotic by them ? Best of regards emanuela

[Albertus41]

Hi Emanuela Hoxha

I think a forum's companion talked about this clinic. It's called Instituto del Aliento (breath's institution) and it's lead by doctor Nunes. This doctor assists in Spain, Portugal, UK, and so on.
He took simples of my mouth: saliva, gums, and throat to study the bacterias there and he took a simple of my breathing.
He prescribed three types of antibiotics differents for a month and a mouthwash (the breath co or Ultradex) and nasal irrigations.
My bb reduced, but not disappeared and some symptoms remained such as smelling of food when I was eating and after too or the indol odor (fecal) an hour later. This odor reduced but was there.
As time passed the effect of antibiotics disappeared and my bb came back and I came back to the clinic and they repeated the proves and gave me other types of antibiotics and it happened the same. The doctor talked about more alternatives and he told me he wouldn't stop until I was cured.
I have been going to a psychologist to dismiss halitophobia for five months and I will come back to the clinic with the psychologist's report.
I have many things to tell him. I wish I could write all here, but I need to spend a long time writing in English. I'm sorry.
I wish I could say whatever I want to say.
When I return from the clinic, I will tell you all.

Regards.

PD: Do you really suffer the same bb I suffer? If you have read my post, you know my symptoms. I have been in Spain's forums for many years, I have been face to face with some of the people there and I have never found anyone who had my problem. So, I was very surprised when Mauricio told me all people here have the same bb I have.
I'm sorry, I apologize for my bad English.

[Emanuela hoxha]

I am so sorry for everything you are going through right now , i am not good at english also so don’t worry, i have seen your post and i am not in the same level as you ,i have never had nasal bb maybe in very rare cases but mostly mouth related to me with gut and stomach as far i knew , but 1 year ago i took flagyl medici e that really reduced my bb and then whem i finished it bb was uo and down and know i dont kno if ita lpr parasite or bacteria or maybe all together because now there are days i dont have there are days i have it butt it not for far away maybe you can feel it near me but still i wanna be free cause cant have a relationship and i am very scared , anyway i searched for that clinic thats why i asked you i am gone talk to them on may 3 thats why i wanted to know if they are helpful or bot because they charge a lot of money , like i saw , anyway i see that also food make a difference and i think like you that not all bb are the same because mine was very different