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Relationship between white tongue and bad breath
Relationship between white tongue and bad breath
These days I have been paying attention to everyone 's tongue when people talk. I have noticed those do not have bb their tongue is pink with no coating. But I also have seen some people with coated tongue and they don't have bb. The other day, I was reading an article from an Oriental doctor and its talk about the relationship between tongue and some conditions. For an instance, he says if the coating of your tongue is on the back of your mouth it could be due to keedney problems, if the coating is in the middle it comes from stomach. Another example is, if the coating is arround your tongue it could be liver condition. But I honestly think that if we had a nice pink tongue, our bb wouldn't exist.
I can achieve a pink tongue for much of the day if I brush, floss, rinse, etc, really well in the morning, and of course use the Tung Brush, and I still have BB.. But the fact is, all of use here have a white tongue.. There's a connection, but yeah, I also know people who have had really white tongues but no BB, so tongue coating isn't the source of the problem, but probably and effect of the state of bacteria or whatnot.
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halitosisux
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I agree with mike there. Most people with BB probably have thicker coated tongues because of what they do to their tongues. If you left your tongues alone they'd turn into "normal" looking tongues. A slight coating on a tongue is normal. And a really thick coated tongue is likely to either create more anaerobic area and more "sponge" to soak up those foul smelling chemicals. Nobody really knows for sure whether an abnormally bad smelling tongue gets that way because of the bacterial activity on that tongue or foulness produced elsewhere which then finds its way onto the tongue where it gets absorbed in this 'sponge' coating.
Coated tongues relate to health problems because its usually a good sign that a person is dehydrated, or they arent eating much and that layer starts building up. There's no other connection to health status, except that the colour of the coating can sometimes indicate sinus infection or esophegeal reflux.
Coated tongues relate to health problems because its usually a good sign that a person is dehydrated, or they arent eating much and that layer starts building up. There's no other connection to health status, except that the colour of the coating can sometimes indicate sinus infection or esophegeal reflux.
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brightonguy
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Can you elaborate on this for me hal? The back of my tongue is yellow, is there anything I can draw from that in terms of understanding my BB better? FYI, and as I've alluded to before, I'm personally sceptical about the relationship between tongue coating and BB in my own case. I've really cut down doing hectic things to my tongue. I'll maybe tung brush it every other evening now instead of rigorously brushing and gauzing the area twice a day and that seems to have help reduce BB at least a little - perhaps because all that stuff we do to our tongues removes the good bacteria as well as the bad, I dunno.halitosisux wrote: the colour of the coating can sometimes indicate sinus infection or esophegeal reflux.
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halitosisux
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Hi, need to do some searches on this. Most of the time any colouring of a coating is just staining from drinking tea for example. Think about what happens when you eat those sweets that make your tongue change colour, so that shows how easily it can stain.
Might be worth having blood tests to check your liver function because certain issues relating to the liver can be asymptomatic as far as disease symptoms go, but yet can lead to the tissues taking on a slight hint of yellowing. If it can do that to skin, then it can possibily do the same to your tongue.
Bile is a yellowy substance which could be related in some way to this.
I've said this before on here, but I used to know this guy who had a really abnormally strong suphurous smelling breath - pure rotten egg smell. He didnt seem to realise this, and nobody ever mentioned it. But I remember him saying he has/had some liver issues. His skin had an unnatural bronze colour to it.
He just gave me the impression that he knew he had this problem and what was causing it. Regrettably we never spoke about it.
I agree, that most measures aimed at dealing with the tongue coating/odours turn into a vicious circle which eventually defeats the whole object. These measures just end in the tongue developing a thicker coating and you are back to square one. The only possible way I think of helping the tongue is to try to help the ecology into one which favours a healthy microbial balance in terms of odour production. Very gentle scraping using water only, making sure your digestive system is as healthy as it can be so that you are fully hydrated - no need to drink gallons of water - if the body is hydrated then so will the mouth be, and if not then that's where your problem lies which needs addressing. NO chemicals like mouthwash, which dont do ANYTHING in the long term, only in the short term (measured in minutes) and most importantly, finding the best combination of ORAL probiotics that help. By oral I mean for effect in the mouth, not in the gut.
If this doesnt help then maybe your odour is produced elseswhere and finds its way into your mouth, through saliva etc (assuming you have type-1 BB) causing your tongue to smell. This is all assuming your odour is coming from your tongue and you have ruled out the obvious causes.
Might be worth having blood tests to check your liver function because certain issues relating to the liver can be asymptomatic as far as disease symptoms go, but yet can lead to the tissues taking on a slight hint of yellowing. If it can do that to skin, then it can possibily do the same to your tongue.
Bile is a yellowy substance which could be related in some way to this.
I've said this before on here, but I used to know this guy who had a really abnormally strong suphurous smelling breath - pure rotten egg smell. He didnt seem to realise this, and nobody ever mentioned it. But I remember him saying he has/had some liver issues. His skin had an unnatural bronze colour to it.
He just gave me the impression that he knew he had this problem and what was causing it. Regrettably we never spoke about it.
I agree, that most measures aimed at dealing with the tongue coating/odours turn into a vicious circle which eventually defeats the whole object. These measures just end in the tongue developing a thicker coating and you are back to square one. The only possible way I think of helping the tongue is to try to help the ecology into one which favours a healthy microbial balance in terms of odour production. Very gentle scraping using water only, making sure your digestive system is as healthy as it can be so that you are fully hydrated - no need to drink gallons of water - if the body is hydrated then so will the mouth be, and if not then that's where your problem lies which needs addressing. NO chemicals like mouthwash, which dont do ANYTHING in the long term, only in the short term (measured in minutes) and most importantly, finding the best combination of ORAL probiotics that help. By oral I mean for effect in the mouth, not in the gut.
If this doesnt help then maybe your odour is produced elseswhere and finds its way into your mouth, through saliva etc (assuming you have type-1 BB) causing your tongue to smell. This is all assuming your odour is coming from your tongue and you have ruled out the obvious causes.
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brightonguy
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@hal, many thanks, real words of wisdom as usual. I can only assume it's coming from my tongue or at least my mouth in general based on the smple odds of probability based on what the literature says about the source of BB.
I feel like I've had some success with probiotic natural yoghurt and yakult containing Lactobacillus acidophilus, Streptococcus thermophilus and Bifidobacterium longum but from your post, seems like I should be taking other probiotics as well cuz I don't think these are for oral issues as such are they. Can you recommend some options for me?
Many thanks again
I feel like I've had some success with probiotic natural yoghurt and yakult containing Lactobacillus acidophilus, Streptococcus thermophilus and Bifidobacterium longum but from your post, seems like I should be taking other probiotics as well cuz I don't think these are for oral issues as such are they. Can you recommend some options for me?
Many thanks again
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Phantasist
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I agree with Mike987 that a white coating on the tongue is not the problem but only a symptom of some underlying cause. Something else is wrong and it may be the microfloral imbalance in our mouths as Halitosisux has mentioned. But in addition to the possible health issues also mentioned by Halitosisux, there could also be a bacterial problem in the small intestine and the colon which might produce a coating on the tongue.
I would also mention that the tongue itself is not white (or yellow). It is the layer of gunk on the dorsal surface of the tongue that is white. I see no problem with scraping it off and brushing the tongue as long as it is done gently. I do it with antibacterial toothpaste and then gargle and rinse with an antibacterial rinse. This does not eliminate the underlying problem of course, but it helps me quite a bit in normal interactions with people. I don't think it would be good enough for romantic situations where you're two inches from your girlfriend's face.
I have also noticed that most people's tongues are pink. I wish I could bring about a condition where my tongue has no coating on it without scraping, but it doesn't look like I will ever achieve that.
I would also mention that the tongue itself is not white (or yellow). It is the layer of gunk on the dorsal surface of the tongue that is white. I see no problem with scraping it off and brushing the tongue as long as it is done gently. I do it with antibacterial toothpaste and then gargle and rinse with an antibacterial rinse. This does not eliminate the underlying problem of course, but it helps me quite a bit in normal interactions with people. I don't think it would be good enough for romantic situations where you're two inches from your girlfriend's face.
I have also noticed that most people's tongues are pink. I wish I could bring about a condition where my tongue has no coating on it without scraping, but it doesn't look like I will ever achieve that.
The hand we are dealt is fate. How we play the cards is free will.
The tongue is covered with tiny bumps known as papillae. When these papillae become enlarged, the bacteria hide in between these swollen bumps. These bacteria cause the pigmentation which can have different colors ranging from black to yellow. The causes of yellow tongue coating cannot always be related to diseases and disorders. Following are the causes of yellow tongue coating:
* Nutritional deficiencies can be a reason for yellow tongue coating.
* Yellow tongue symptom is seen in jaundice, however, mere yellow tongue coating cannot be diagnosed as jaundice.
* Apart from jaundice, smoking can also be a reason for yellow tongue coating and the presence of dark spots on tongue.
* When you are suffering from severe cold and cough, you may experience that you cannot breathe with your nostrils. In that case, you breathe with the mouth. Breathing with mouth also causes the yellow tongue coating.
* Fever is another reason for the yellow tongue coating. Dehydration in fever can be a reason for the yellow tongue coating.
* Dehydration can be a reason for dry tongue with a yellow tongue
Hali :
Phantasist:
I
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... =firefox-a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papain
* Nutritional deficiencies can be a reason for yellow tongue coating.
* Yellow tongue symptom is seen in jaundice, however, mere yellow tongue coating cannot be diagnosed as jaundice.
* Apart from jaundice, smoking can also be a reason for yellow tongue coating and the presence of dark spots on tongue.
* When you are suffering from severe cold and cough, you may experience that you cannot breathe with your nostrils. In that case, you breathe with the mouth. Breathing with mouth also causes the yellow tongue coating.
* Fever is another reason for the yellow tongue coating. Dehydration in fever can be a reason for the yellow tongue coating.
* Dehydration can be a reason for dry tongue with a yellow tongue
Hali :
Your friend might have Hemochromatosis which symptoms include bad breath , liver cirrhosis , bronze skin colorI've said this before on here, but I used to know this guy who had a really abnormally strong suphurous smelling breath - pure rotten egg smell. He didnt seem to realise this, and nobody ever mentioned it. But I remember him saying he has/had some liver issues. His skin had an unnatural bronze colour to it.
Phantasist:
I
You can clean the tongue coating with Proteolytic Enzyme . I have had a great result with a very thin tongue coating which does not require scraping for 3 weeks already ( read my post about Creon in "Salivary IgA and oral ecology ") I will give a thorough report about it next week . At the mean time , if you want to try it , just ask your doctor . It's just a digestive enzyme and he can prescribe it to you easily . There are some natural fruit proteases such as papain and bromelain in papaya and pine apple . They are not as strong as porcine enzyme but still might help , so chew some pine apple after mealwish I could bring about a condition where my tongue has no coating on it without scraping, but it doesn't look like I will ever achieve that.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... =firefox-a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papain
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Phantasist
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Sadman,
Thank you for the information, but I'm not talking about cleaning the tongue. What I want is to aleviate the condition which causes the coating on the tongue to appear in the first place. There must be a reason why some of us have a white coating when most people don't. That underlying reason is the problem.
Thank you for the information, but I'm not talking about cleaning the tongue. What I want is to aleviate the condition which causes the coating on the tongue to appear in the first place. There must be a reason why some of us have a white coating when most people don't. That underlying reason is the problem.
The hand we are dealt is fate. How we play the cards is free will.
Phantasist
The problem is that some people's mouths are designed in a way that creates an overly hospitable environment for these bacteria. When these bacteria are too numerous, they create bad breath.
The white coating on your tongue is an indication that your tongue has a geographic layout that is very friendly to these bacteria, and so they are allowed to flourish.
If you really want to get rid of your bad breath forever (the tongue coating will get better as you do this), then scraping alone is not the answer. Scraping removes some of the coating, but it does nothing to the bacteria.
You MUST create a less hospitable environment in your mouth and on your tongue for the bacteria. One thing you can do is to minimize the food supply to those bacteria . After we have finished a meal minute particles of food still remain in our mouth. Much of this food debris ends up lodged between our teeth and incorporated into the coating found on the posterior part of our tongue. Since these are precisely the same locations in which the anaerobic bacteria that cause bad breath live, if a person does not clean their mouth thoroughly a food supply is provided for these bacteria over an extended period of time.
Instead of using mechanical and antibacterial cleaning or Zinc to mask the odor, I use enzyme to break down the food debris after eating , then the saliva or drinking water will wash them away and thus minimize the food supply to bacteria and reduce their growth and consequently the production of VSC's. Proteolytic Enzyme also has a direct lytic action on Bacteria, predominantly on Gram Negative anaerobic bacteria and thus can change the oral ecology to a more favorable one for good bacteria since we can use those enzymes for as long as we can without side effects . Just hope that this approach is for real since my BB has reduced dramatically for three weeks already .
The true cause of bad breath is a specific bacteria that makes your mouth its home. These bacteria are actually a natural part of your digestive system, breaking down things that you eat.Thank you for the information, but I'm not talking about cleaning the tongue. What I want is to aleviate the condition which causes the coating on the tongue to appear in the first place. There must be a reason why some of us have a white coating when most people don't. That underlying reason is the problem.
The problem is that some people's mouths are designed in a way that creates an overly hospitable environment for these bacteria. When these bacteria are too numerous, they create bad breath.
The white coating on your tongue is an indication that your tongue has a geographic layout that is very friendly to these bacteria, and so they are allowed to flourish.
If you really want to get rid of your bad breath forever (the tongue coating will get better as you do this), then scraping alone is not the answer. Scraping removes some of the coating, but it does nothing to the bacteria.
You MUST create a less hospitable environment in your mouth and on your tongue for the bacteria. One thing you can do is to minimize the food supply to those bacteria . After we have finished a meal minute particles of food still remain in our mouth. Much of this food debris ends up lodged between our teeth and incorporated into the coating found on the posterior part of our tongue. Since these are precisely the same locations in which the anaerobic bacteria that cause bad breath live, if a person does not clean their mouth thoroughly a food supply is provided for these bacteria over an extended period of time.
Instead of using mechanical and antibacterial cleaning or Zinc to mask the odor, I use enzyme to break down the food debris after eating , then the saliva or drinking water will wash them away and thus minimize the food supply to bacteria and reduce their growth and consequently the production of VSC's. Proteolytic Enzyme also has a direct lytic action on Bacteria, predominantly on Gram Negative anaerobic bacteria and thus can change the oral ecology to a more favorable one for good bacteria since we can use those enzymes for as long as we can without side effects . Just hope that this approach is for real since my BB has reduced dramatically for three weeks already .
Sputnik
John
If Creon is not available where you live ( outside USA ) you can ask your doctor for digestive enzymes or you can try those enzymes Sputnik mentions above .
They might work since it has Pancreatin extracted from pork pancreas besides Papain , Bromelain , but I don't know if that dose of Pancreatin is strong enough to cause an irritation and even bleeding of the oral mucosa as does Creon . You can try them and if you feel an irritation in your mouth after 2-3 minutes , they might work . I have tried Papain alone which did not cause any irritation in my mouth at all . Creon even disintegrates chewing gum in 4-5 minutes .How about these from amazon, can they work?
John
Creon has Amylase , Lipase and protease ( proteolytic enzyme) so it can break down Sugar , fat and protein .sadman? wich medicen should i ask my doctor?
Proteolytic Enzyme or creon?
If Creon is not available where you live ( outside USA ) you can ask your doctor for digestive enzymes or you can try those enzymes Sputnik mentions above .
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halitosisux
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You probably know far more about them than I do. KT is very likely to know what's worth trying. The fact that you've had some success with this is a very good sign. Even when my breath was at its worst, simple plain natural yoghurt, if I'd allow it to sit on my tongue for a few minutes a day and swish it all over my mouth and tongue, had a huge effect. I didnt actually know about my dodgy wisdom tooth at the time of trying this, but its possible that the probiotics were getting into the gum pocket and reducing the BB at the source, but if not it was reducing the overall condition inside my mouth.brightonguy wrote:@hal, I feel like I've had some success with probiotic natural yoghurt and yakult containing Lactobacillus acidophilus, Streptococcus thermophilus and Bifidobacterium longum but from your post, seems like I should be taking other probiotics as well cuz I don't think these are for oral issues as such are they. Can you recommend some options for me?
Blis K-12 'supposedly' deals with chronic BB if the sole cause is an unexplainable bad smelling tongue. Obviously if someone still has a remaining underlying problem, such as a sinus infection or tooth issue or TMAU etc, then its not going to be. A lot of people on here have tried this probiotic and said it doesnt work, but then most people on here probably dont solely have type-1 BB, they more than likely have other underlying causes that give rise to type-1. I have never personally tried Blis K-12. But my point is, Blis is not some genetically modified bacteria, its just a bacteria that's been isolated in the mouthes of people who never seem to get sore throats - or BAD BREATH. So if that can work then there's potentially other species of bacteria that could work too. And the more species of bacteria thrown at the problem, the more chance that there could be interactions between them that allow them to permanently colonize.
Ok, let me see if I understand this correctly, you're saying that the more digestive enzyme will burn your mouth, the more efficient it will be? These are the ingredients of the Proteolytic Enzymes found on Amazon:sadman wrote:Sputnik
They might work since it has Pancreatin extracted from pork pancreas besides Papain , Bromelain , but I don't know if that dose of Pancreatin is strong enough to cause an irritation and even bleeding of the oral mucosa as does Creon . You can try them and if you feel an irritation in your mouth after 2-3 minutes , they might work . I have tried Papain alone which did not cause any irritation in my mouth at all . Creon even disintegrates chewing gum in 4-5 minutes .How about these from amazon, can they work?
John
"Ingredients per 1 Tablet: Pancreatin 8x 100mg Papain 30,000 USP/mg 60mg Peptizyme SP 200,000 SPU/g 26mg Bromelain 1,200 MCU/g 25mg "
Is creon available only through prescription or should I look for a product that contain creon and nothing else (since it can break down Sugar, fat and protein)?
